Guiding setup, which way to go?

[Vega]

Hi all... now this is purely hypathetical (cus my consience keeps saying no )

I have a 10" Newt and EQ6 Synscan GOTO mount. I'm trying to get my head around what would be the best way to add a guiding setup to it. Here's a couple Q's that are frying my brain...

1. Is a side by side dovetail a better option than piggyback style? (would it be harder to balance?)

2. Are standard scope rings any good or do you have to use the adjustable one's for guide scopes?

3. What kind of guide scope is ideal to use with a 10" Newt? Is focal length very important? (Startravel 80 or ED80 were planted in my head).

4. Is a Toucam up to the job of guiding?

5. Is K3CCD Tools any good at auto guiding? If not what is recommended?

So many open questions I know, but thought I'd take FULL advantage of the vast knowlege in this place

Any comments welcome on any of the questions

Cheers

Matt

[ianporter13]

Matt,

I'll try and answer as many questions as I can

1, I've tried both and had no real problems either way, although side by side with a 10" newt may not be that easy purely down to it's size, I'd go with piggy back to start with

2, nothing wrong with standard rings if your guide cam is sensitive enough to find a guide star in any part of the sky, guide rings do allow you to move the scope around if you need to find a guide star though if you have a less sensitive camera.

3, An ST80 should be fine although an ED80 would give you a second option to use it as the imaging scope with the newt as the guider.

4, A toucam can be used if there's a nice bright object to guide on, otherwise you'd be best of with a modified toucam, DSI, QHY5 etc.

5, for guiding software I use Guidemaster, others use PHD or Guidedog. PHD is supposed to be really simple but I've not used it myself.

so hopefully some answers and probably more questions.

Ian

[Whippy]

Matt, from what little I know...

1: I'd agree with Ian, a side by side plate would have to be pretty chunky to cope with your 250, so perhaps piggy backing would be good.

2: I think you need not worry for now about guidescope rings to start with. So far, I haven't had to use any, but that's only been 3 times so far! Besides, you can always get some oversize rings, and make some yourself.. I have a set of 100mm rings that I plan to use with mine.

3: I went for a WO66 purely because it has that super short focal length so not only will it have the wide field so there's more chance of getting a bright enough guidestar, but as it's got half decent optics I can use it for wide field imaging too...

4: People use Toucams for guiding...

5: Dunno!

I spent the extra and bought a QHY5 and a WO66 for guiding. The QHY works with PHD beautifully and it's really simple to use. Just plug it all in to the relavent places, focus the cam and PHD does the rest. I had it working in about 10 minutes first time and for me, it's one less headache while trying to climb that steep curve that is learning to image!

Tony..

[MikeD]

Hi Matt,

I use a 10" newt, a goto modded EQ6 (Not Synscan), an 80Ed piggybacked and a toucam pro 2 ( long exposure modded)

I can use both scopes to image or guide and use guidmaster and maxim DL guiding software to guide.

I made my own guide rings out of an old aluminum flag pole I got from the scrapyard.

I have had to adjust the guidescope on occasions to get a good guide star with 1 second exposures so if you can, get some guide rings as it just makes things easier.

I have never tried K3ccdtools to guide but guidmaster is very good and free.

Hope this helps.

Mike.

[Vega]

Cheers Mike

Did you image 'THAT M51 image' with this setup?. You've guessed it, yet more questions....

1. How many counterweights do you need for that setup?

2. Initially I'm thinking 'crazy idea' but would my Evostar (1000mm focal length) 120 work as a guidescope? :? Or is it just overkill?

Matt

[George]

Cheers Mike

Did you image 'THAT M51 image' with this setup?. You've guessed it, yet more questions....

1. How many counterweights do you need for that setup?

2. Initially I'm thinking 'crazy idea' but would my Evostar (1000mm focal length) 120 work as a guidescope? :? Or is it just overkill?

Matt

I have the same setup as Mike, 250PX with piggybacked ED80/QHY5.

You will need 4 counterweights to achive balance, Im limited to Maxim/PHD/Guidmaster as guider software. I actually use PHD out of preference and it does what it says on the tin with no messing about, todate Ive guided to 10 min subs with no trailing.

[Vega]

Thanks George, 10 minute subs, I like the sound of that!

So do the guide scope rings screw on top of a normal Skywatcher dovetail plate which is then screwed on to the top of the 10" rings? I cant quite tell in Mike's image.

Matt

[George]

I had a custom bar made which to mount my rings which also stiffens everything up too.

The rings I got from http://www.astro.premcom.com/ADM/ and the mountings bars were from http://www.freewebs.com/raysrings/

The silver bar is a custom dovetail I had made, the blue bar is the piggyback bar.

This shows how its all put together, the ST80 has now been replaced with a ED80 which is longer and heavier.

Sorry about the poor quality of the piccys, they were taken with my phone.

[Vega]

Pics are fine for single subs... try spending more time on focusing next time and maybe some flats and darks .

Yeah that ST80 looks like a compact little fella. Those links are very useful thanks. I'm still undecided whether to take the guiding plunge yet. Reading up on the cabling / guide camera / software settings side of things this guiding malarkey looks real time consuming for someone without a fixed setup. To make things worse, my laptop only has 3 USB ports (no serials or parallels) so I'd have to splash out on yet more adaptors.

I've picked up a few more things i can do to help with my current setup....

-Balance the scope in RA so that the side that the mount is 'lifting' is always slightly heavier.

-Add an equivalent amount of weight to the scope tube to simulate the weight of the DSLR camera when PEC training (a ToUcam is MUCH lighter than a DSLR which could throw out the balancing somewhat to what it would be while actually imaging).

Cheers

Matt

[George]

Mine is a permanent setup so I couldn't imagine having to set everything up, especially with the weather we get virtually changing on the fly. Mine is balanced without the DSLR because its used on either the 250PX or the ED80 which means the weight transfer could be at opposite ends of the scope, TBH I haven't seen any sort of effect on the images having this sort of setup. Also from what I have read the EQ6 performs better when it has a bit of work to-do so I guess with the EQ6 being a heavier mount you get away with balance not being too critical.

Dont woory too much about being a little bit out

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

Just to add my two penn'orth WRT K3CCD Tools. This works fine for guiding with a Toucam, that's how I do it.

Kaptain Klevtsov

[Vega]

Mine is balanced without the DSLR because its used on either the 250PX or the ED80 which means the weight transfer could be at opposite ends of the scope

I guess the only thing that might affect balance is if the weight in RA is heavier on the scope side rather than the counterweight side (when imaging something West of the meridian). This would mean the mount has more weight on the side that is rotating downwards. Aparentley, the motors/gears work more accurately when 'lifting' the heavier side. But I guess now I'm entering OCD territory and should consult my doctor

Matt