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alro

delos or nagler

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Hello all and thanks for help and advice.

I understand there are a lot of tele vue fans on here so this is the best place to pose my question.

i have now got a few different eyepieces and soon would like to get a premium prestigious ep and from what ive read tele vue seems to be the way to go. As yet i do not own any tele vue products.

Initialy i thought i would like to get a nagler, the name says it all, but ive read some fantastic reviews on delos and to be honest i hadnt really considered that previously.

I have one scope, meade lx90 acf 8inch, if any which would perform better with this?

also i think i will be sticking with 1.25 so i believe 17.3 or 10mm for delos ir for nagler 9mm, 11mm or 16.

thanks

al

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I own several Naglers and one Delos. If you wear glasses while observing, a Delos is great due to its long eye relief. The Type 4 Naglers are superb for people with glasses as well, as are the two longest type 5s (31 and 26mm work for me, even if the latter is a shade tight). The other Naglers are optically fine, but the eye relief is too small for people with glasses (like me). Pentax XW, XL and XF EPs are also very good indeed, up there in Tele-Vue territory

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Al, Delos epcs are much more comfortable than Naglers, and produce almost neutral toned images.

It depends what you want, so if you preffer bigger FOV and warm toned images, Naglers are way to go.

If you want more comfort due higher eye releaf and more neutral toned images, with little more details on DSOs and Planets, Delos are better.

Delos also have spectacular big eye lenses.

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Al, Delos epcs are much more comfortable than Naglers, and produce almost neutral toned images.

It depends what you want, so if you preffer bigger FOV and warm toned images, Naglers are way to go.

If you want more comfort due higher eye releaf and more neutral toned images, with little more details on DSOs and Planets, Delos are better.

Delos also have spectacular big eye lenses.

Not all Naglers have that warm tone I did note in the Radian 8 and 10mm I used to have (very small effect even there, but visible), especially when compared to the Pentax XW/XF and Delos I have. The Naglers 31T5, 22T4, and 17T4 seem to have none in my eyes, the 12T4 might have the slightest hint, but actually held up well in all respects to the  Ethos 13mm which is considered to be very neutral.

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I have all of the eyepieces your are looking at apart from the 17.3mm Delos which my friend says is the best one, probably because it is the one I don't have.

I like Delos eyepieces for planetary views in my range of scopes and the fact they are pretty much flat field I always use them for the Moon. The flatness of field is something I am not fond of with Naglers and hate to use them for the Moon but enjoy the wide field vies on other targets, when you think they are not far off Ethos FOV and much less money in many cases. I have had 9 of the Nagler range and I don't buy into this colour caste at all, even on the Radians it was over talked.

For your first one why not check out the S/H sites, you can get a 11mm Nagler for as little as 150 quid though for some reason the 9mm is another 20 pounds most of the time and 16mm very rare indeed.

Alan

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Not all Naglers have that warm tone I did note in the Radian 8 and 10mm I used to have (very small effect even there, but visible), especially when compared to the Pentax XW/XF and Delos I have. The Naglers 31T5, 22T4, and 17T4 seem to have none in my eyes, the 12T4 might have the slightest hint, but actually held up well in all respects to the  Ethos 13mm which is considered to be very neutral.

Well, I had in same time Nagler 31mm and XW 30mm, and Nagler is VERY WARM in this comparation.

I also put each of above in Powermate 4x to see difference, and here is already bigger difference.

XW 30 showed more detailed picture of Jupiter with PM 4x, and of course, with coolee toned image than N31 + PM 4x.

On daytime, Nagler 31 is very poor because many false colours, and very warm tone.

BTW, I have very sharp eyes thanxs God :-)

My favorite WA eyepieces are definetly XWs, which have even more neutral toned image, even cooler than Delos-I test them few times!

One more big plus of XWs are waterpfoof, while Deloses are not!

XWs all the way in WA world! No compromise for me!

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I have had 9 of the Nagler range and I don't buy into this colour caste at all, even on the Radians it was over talked. . Alan

Me neither Alan.

I have Naglers like em lots. Used radians, like them too. The delos I've looked through I also liked. :)

Flip a coin you can't lose IMO.

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With my former 8" SCT my 10mm delos became a favourite ep; 203x, neutral colouring, great contrast and comfortable, relaxed eye placement. In fact I enjoy this eyepiece in all scopes I have used it in. I used to have a 9mm nagler T6 which I also liked and I have a 16mm nagler T5 which receives a lot of use.  When I had an 8" SCT  my high to mid power eyepiece line up consisted of the following; 8mm TV plossl, 9mm nagler T6, 10mm delos, 11mm TV plossl, 13mm nagler T6 and 16mm nagler T5.

Besides the 10mm and 16mm as mentioned (and the only two I still have of this set), my 11mm  and 13mm would also receive a good deal of use, the 8mm and 9mm much more determined by seeing conditions. 

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had ethos personally and tested naglers,delos and Pentax,unfortunately settled for something complitely different lol.But if i had to choose,i would take same as Denis=Pentax XW.

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Well, I had in same time Nagler 31mm and XW 30mm, and Nagler is VERY WARM in this comparation.

I also put each of above in Powermate 4x to see difference, and here is already bigger difference.

XW 30 showed more detailed picture of Jupiter with PM 4x, and of course, with coolee toned image than N31 + PM 4x.

On daytime, Nagler 31 is very poor because many false colours, and very warm tone.

BTW, I have very sharp eyes thanxs God :-)

My favorite WA eyepieces are definetly XWs, which have even more neutral toned image, even cooler than Delos-I test them few times!

One more big plus of XWs are waterpfoof, while Deloses are not!

XWs all the way in WA world! No compromise for me!

I do not see how adding a PowerMate would change the difference in tonality between two inserted eyepieces. That does not make sense in terms of the physics. In daylight, my Nagler 31T5 only shows the well-known ring of fire problem, but certainly no other chromatic errors. Plain physics and knowledge of the human visual system will tell you chromatic aberration will show up much more clearly in images if stars. I just used the 31T5 in daytime in an APM 80mm F/6 triplet last week, and calling the image very poor is ridiculous. Yes, there was a ring of fire, rendering the outer 3% of the FOV (a part never shown by the XW30) less useful, but the rest was very sharp indeed.

In terms of eye sharpness, I have a visual acuity of 1.6, which is pretty sharp, and am by now pretty skilled at picking up very faint detail (like mag13.6 galaxies in an 8" scope). I have compared many EPs, and I cannot confirm that my Nagler 31T5 is significantly warmer than the Zeiss Planar T* lenses I have used in photography.

XWs are great EPs, but they are spaced too wide in terms of focal length. The Delos series is more closely spaced, which is nice for planetary in particular. Interleaving XWs and Delos EPs is a bit troublesome, because they are far from parfocal.

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I like Delos eyepieces better than Naglers. Mainly because I find them more comfortable to use (I also wear glasses) but also I prefer the 70° ish apparent field of view. I use mainly Pentax XW eyepieces myself but if I had to choose TeleVue, it would be Delos.

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One thing the Nagler 31T5 does show in daytime when panning is the "rolling ball" effect. EPs designed for daytime use typically won't show this (my XWs don't, the 22T4 shows it to a lesser degree). This has to do with different trade-offs in the design.

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All this criticism over the 31mm Nagler must be why there are year round wanted adverts for them and that they still command about 75% of their new value. When one does come up for grabs it sure don't collect much dust.

Alan

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All this criticism over the 31mm Nagler must be why there are year round wanted adverts for them and that they still command about 75% of their new value. When one does come up for grabs it sure don't collect much dust.

Alan

Surely a good thing?  :lipsrsealed:

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Quite a while back I compared the 31mm Nagler with 2 of it's competitors, including the Pentax XW 30mm:

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/53645-3-big-eyepieces/

Interestingly, the 1st example of the 30mm Pentax XW that I was sent had to be returned because it showed excessive edge of field astigmatism and was clearly faulty. Thats about the first time I've known of a quality issue with a Pentax.

Though I don't use my 31mm Nagler all that much due to light pollution around here, when it does get used it's a fantastic piece of kit and I still get a thrill from using it :smiley:

Sure, it's got it's quirks but so have all eyepieces. The Pentax 30mm XW is excellent but it does "its thing" in a different way to the big Nagler. Personal preference will affect which way you prefer to go, although the Pentax XW30 is I believe very hard to find now used or new.

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Never looked through the XW30, but all the other XWs I have used are superb. Second-hand they are rare as hen's teeth for a reason: nobody wants to let them go

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..and yet Delos come up in second-hand sales quite regularly - which I find a little surprising.

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..and yet Delos come up in second-hand sales quite regularly - which I find a little surprising.

Unfortunatally that little flourish seems to have passed. This might have been a rash of Ethos upgrades or the people deciding to head an alternative 100° degree route.

Judging by the lack of response to my Wanted ads in Classifieds section and ABS, the market isn't awash with 2nd hand Delos.

Paul

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I recently picked up a superb 12mm Delos on SGL, my first venture into the wider field and more expensive Televue glass.I don't need to recite the optical virtues, as it is well known, but the " icing on the cake" was the twist up eye cup which makes for a very comfortable

cradle for the eyeball. Add to that an enormous eye lens and the result is a cracker of an eyepiece.

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..and yet Delos come up in second-hand sales quite regularly - which I find a little surprising.

Maybe some eyeballs are different and having tasted Delos, people decide there are a different set of compromises they prefer? I did.

They were super sharp edge to edge (and I mean very sharp) and with the twist up barrel and rubber eye cup, it was easy to find a comfortable position. However, the 17.3mm felt like it was from another range (actively disliked it, preferring my MV SWA20mm) they weren't so much sharper across 90% of the FoV that they embarrassed my Maxvision SWAs. The huge eye relief made the 70deg FoV look small (a subjective effect) and finally, 20mm of eye relief was too much for white light solar where you have a very stopped down iris. They kidney beaned and blacked out, even with the barrel full up and couldn't block out incidental light. Others mileage will clearly vary.

No EP is perfect for everybody and for me, the Delos were short ot straddling the solar and night time camps for their price. On the plus side, I lost about £60 on three Delos, two of which were bought brand new at very good prices - Delos bought with care, are not a financial risk, so you can try them with little fiscal risk.

Indeed, this is true of TV in general, but equally, the volume of TV available second hand would suggest to me that contrary to the assertions of the TV Massive, they're not the be-all, end-all for everyone.

Russell

Edited by russ.will
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Unfortunatally that little flourish seems to have passed. This might have been a rash of Ethos upgrades or the people deciding to head an alternative 100° degree route.

Judging by the lack of response to my Wanted ads in Classifieds section and ABS, the market isn't awash with 2nd hand Delos.

Paul

Paul,

It will be like the bus, not one for ages then two or three come along. I always find that the things I want come up when I have got any money in my UK account. I moved a fair bit that had stacked up due to exchange rates, as soon as i had only 80 quid left all sorts came up that I wanted.

Alan

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can I throw another one into the mix, It very rarely gets mentioned as its not as wide as the nagler, xw, and delos but optically its up their with them and a lot cheaper new. the vixen lvw. should work well on a driven  sct. Maybe not known as a premium eyepiece but it should be, these things are even harder to get second hand no one lets them go

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Rowan,

No I think the Vixen LVW is know amoung us as a quality eyepiece but I think it is fair to say it may well not be as popular as the other two, I feel sure there are many more TeleVues about than LVW's, but I agree you don't see them on the S/H market very often

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Rowan,

No I think the Vixen LVW is know amoung us as a quality eyepiece but I think it is fair to say it may well not be as popular as the other two, I feel sure there are many more TeleVues about than LVW's, but I agree you don't see them on the S/H market very often

I am pretty sure that those in the know know about them but they are almost never mentioned very nearly as good as the delos and xw for a lot less money

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