Don't buy the Sony A5000/5100 for astrophotography

[sharkmelley]

I've just bought a Sony A5100 for astrophotography because of its super sensitive sensor and very low read noise.

I was running it through a batch of tests and then hit the showstopper

Long exposure noise reduction cannot be switched off.  So after, for instance, a 5 minute exposure it automatically takes another 5 minute (dark) exposure internally to subtract.  This functionality cannot be switched off.

More info here:

http://community.sony.com/t5/Alpha-SLT-DSLR-Cameras/Can-Long-Exposure-Noise-Reduction-be-turned-off-on-the-A5000/td-p/481306

This limitation applies to the A5100 and also the older less sensitive A5000.  You have to buy the A6000 (same sensor as the A5100) to be able to switch this off.

Mark

Edited March 4, 2015 by sharkmelley

[Dave In Vermont]

Thanks for the warning. I hope it helps people.

What stinkers Sony can be! I hope Dear Leader buys one.

Clear & Noiseless Skies,

Dave

[Dave Lloyd]

It does seem from that link that Sony are catering to the daytime shooter masses. It's a good heads up though for anyone considering an A5000/5100.

[ronin]

Well that might be why they get the "very low read noise."

They take a "dark" and subtract = noise reduction.

Also in defence of Sony the cameras are not intended for astrophotography they are aimed at the masses who point and shoot while on holiday and get a load of holiday snaps to send people who do not want to see them.

The complaint seems to be that a camera never intended for an astrophotography application and the specialist aspect associated with it is not specifically suited to astrophotography.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I always hate it when manufacturers think they know better than me as a user what should be done under ceertain circumstances without letting you overrule their presets. As it is MY device I should be granted control if I desire it. I never like cameras (or computers for that matter) that do not let me do things the way I want them

[sharkmelley]

Also in defence of Sony the cameras are not intended for astrophotography they are aimed at the masses who point and shoot while on holiday and get a load of holiday snaps to send people who do not want to see them.

The complaint seems to be that a camera never intended for an astrophotography application and the specialist aspect associated with it is not specifically suited to astrophotography.

I completely disagree.   It's not specialist at all.  Long exposure bulb mode has existed since the very earliest days of photography.  It's always been one of the most fundamental things a camera does.  It is not unreasonable to expect it to work in the same simple straightforward way that Bulb mode has done for over a century.

Mark

[sgazer]

It's a very alarmist title for what is basically an inconvenience!

It can actually be deactivated by setting the camera to shoot 3 or 5 images in succession, then it doesn't do the darks.

Yes, it would be nice to be able to turn it off in the menus, especially as the a6000 is able to. But at least if you do use it, it means the darks are taken at the same temp as the lights, although it does double the imaging period.

No its not how they produce such low noise images, the sensor is the same as the a6000 and nikon d3300 and is rated by DxOMark as the lowest noise APS-C sensor available.

The camera is simply superb for daytime photography and the image quality far surpasses my canon 1000d despite a 23mp sensor. In fact the high resolution sensor makes it perfect for use with shorter focal length lenses (as opposed to a scope) because the image can be cropped more readily. The low noise, even at iso1600 and 3200, is amazing.

Add to that it's about the size of a compact camera, makes it an awesome bit of kit.

Edited March 14, 2015 by sgazer

[sgazer]

I completely disagree.   It's not specialist at all.  Long exposure bulb mode has existed since the very earliest days of photography.  It's always been one of the most fundamental things a camera does.  It is not unreasonable to expect it to work in the same simple straightforward way that Bulb mode has done for over a century.

Mark

Bulb mode does work

[sharkmelley]

It's a very alarmist title for what is basically an inconvenience!

That's a fair point about the alarmist title.

Bulb mode does work

But bulb mode doubles the exposure length.  A 5 minute exposure will take 10 minutes to perform so it takes twice the time to do any serious imaging.   If you try to do a 20 or 30 frame startrails image, then the startrails will be full of gaps.  In my opinion this is more than an inconvenience.  It is a deal breaker.

Mark

Edited March 14, 2015 by sharkmelley

[larsmn]

Where just looking at a5100 to replace my now worn out Nex-5R (+50.000 subs since 2012), so this was disappointing info. Nearly the same as with the definable  telescope friendly Sony ILCE-QX1, that among others features lack a Bulb setting. Since it is a scaled down Nex-5T, why not have the same functions?

Whats left in getting small "cheap" astro cameras, it is to hope for Olympus new opensourced Air A01. It is 3/4 sensor, well, that's comparable when looking at SBIG and the others sensor sizes. As open sourced, one can only hope for an app writer to make a time-laps astro app, supporting bulb takes. 

Lars

[Astroscot2]

Hello Mark,did you ever solve the issue or find a setting to prevent the auto LER? Im in the process of buying a A5000 as a replacement for our family camera that has got lost.

I would like to use this camera for timelapse / startrail shots .

Thanks

Mark

[ollypenrice]

I think it inconceivable that taking half as many lights and dark subtracting them would give as clean a result as taking twice as many lights and not dark subtracting them, especially if a small dither were built it. The dither wouldn't even need to be activated between each sub. The occasional movement would do.

I share Michael's disapproval of gadgets which think they more about what I want than I do and I also share Ronin's view that there are too many holiday snaps in the world. (Why do so many people bother when they could just look at mine??  )

Olly

Edited May 4, 2015 by ollypenrice

[Dave Lloyd]

I share Michael's disapproval of gadgets which think they more about what I want than I do

Olly

I'll bet you just love windows 8

[Davey-T]

I think it inconceivable that taking half as many lights and dark subtracting them would give as clean a result as taking twice as many lights and not dark subtracting them, especially if a small dither were built it. The dither wouldn't even need to be activated between each sub. The occasional movement would do.

I share Michael's disapproval of gadgets which think they more about what I want than I do and I also share Ronin's view that there are too many holiday snaps in the world. (Why do so many people bother when they could just look at mine??  )

Olly

Curiously when I used the film SLR I used to take holiday snaps and look forward to developing them myself, maybe weeks later, and seeing holiday memories.

Since going digital I simply don't bother any more, if someone wants a snap they can use their phone.

Dave

[sharkmelley]

Hello Mark,did you ever solve the issue or find a setting to prevent the auto LER? Im in the process of buying a A5000 as a replacement for our family camera that has got lost.

I would like to use this camera for timelapse / startrail shots .

No, there was no solution so I sent the A5100 back.  The more expensive Sony A6000 (which uses the same sensor) is a possible alternative that does allow LENR to be switched off.  

Since my aim was to replace my trustworthy Canon 350D (for astro-imaging purposed only)  I ended up totally reconsidering my options and went for the extremely low noise full-frame Sony A7S which only last night I modded for H-alpha response. 

Mark

Edited May 4, 2015 by sharkmelley

[cathouse42]

I am sur ethere are far more Wedding Photographers out there than Astrophotographers, why would they cater for such a small niche market?

http://www.nex-hack.info/wiki/development/fwupdates

You could check for firmware mods.

[sharkmelley]

I think it inconceivable that taking half as many lights and dark subtracting them would give as clean a result as taking twice as many lights and not dark subtracting them, especially if a small dither were built it. The dither wouldn't even need to be activated between each sub. The occasional movement would do.

Absolutely right - no question about it.

Mark

[Astroscot2]

No, there was no solution so I sent the A5100 back.  The more expensive Sony A6000 (which uses the same sensor) is a possible alternative that does allow LENR to be switched off.  

Since my aim was to replace my trustworthy Canon 350D (for astro-imaging purposed only)  I ended up totally reconsidering my options and went for the extremely low noise full-frame Sony A7S which only last night I modded for H-alpha response. 

Mark

Thanks Mark, I think I will still press on with the A5000 as a family camera, im sure there is a solution for the occasional time lapse.

Look forward to seeing your results with the modded A7s

[asset189]

Part of me wishes I'd read this thread a,month ago before I got the A5000. That said I got it principally for a day camera and so far it been real value for money. I've now started to consider using it at night. As a novice it's likely ill stick with A-focal and prime work so hopefully camera will perform ok. Has anyone had much sucess using this camera in this fashion ? I take it I need an e-mount tring adaptor to mount it for prime photography ?

Thanks in advance for any views / advice.

[sharkmelley]

I use an E-mount to Canon adapter for my Sony A7S and then it can be used with all the usual Canon adaptors used in astrophotography.  If you use manual exposures below 30sec then you will avoid the automatic in-camera dark subtraction and the annoying "star eater" behaviour common to the modern Sony cameras.

Mark

Edited September 26, 2015 by sharkmelley

[asset189]

Thanks Mark, appreciated, less than 30 secs should keep me busy for a while

[wimvb]

My pentax k20d had the same problem, long exposure noise reduction could not be turned off. It is however, possible to hack the camera by installing two simple textfiles in the root directory of the memory card. One file puts the camera in debug mode, while the other configures the camera. (Details on pentaxhack.com)

Maybe something similar is possible for the Sony. Google 'Sony A5000 hack'

I Wouldn't recommend this for new cameras, but if you already have the camera and want to use it for AP can be an option.

Wim

[jimmcwibb]

Hi all,

Just registered to say this. The long exposure noise reduction is easily avoided by using continuous shooting mode, which works up to the maximum 30 second exposure. It even works for just one exposure. Obviously this work around doesn't work in bulb mode. So the only thing this limitation will really affect is star trails, if that's your thing. But for stacked exposures there's no reason to not use the a5100.

[jimmcwibb]

Oh and also, if you're using a wide enough lens then the gap between exposures on continuous shooting mode probably won't really be noticeable in the star trail.

[Astroscot2]

I bought the star tails APP only to find it takes a noise reduction image after each shot.

How do you operate yours fro star strails, are you depressing the shutter every image or using an intevalometer?

Thanks