Yet another premium(ish) upgrade conundrum.

[Paul73]

I am faced with a dilemma. I love my MV 68° collection (16, 20, 24 & 28mm). But....

I love my 8mm & 12mm Deloses more.

The accidental (but welcome) arrival of an ES 82° 30mm means that the MV 28mm is going to be heading on to pastures new.

The 16mm MV gives lovely sharp views but I find it uncomfortable to use compared to the Delos and longer MVs. So I am thinking of replacing it with the 17.3mm Delos with its nice comfortable eye relief and a tad more FOV. This is pretty close to the 20mm MV as well.

Would I gain much from moving from this:

Delos 8, 12 mm, MV 68° 16, 20, 24 and ES 82° 30mm

To something like this:

Delos 8, 12, 17.3, Nagler 22mm, ES 82° 30mm

Thoughts or permutations?

Is the Nagler substantially better than the ES 82° 24mm?

Paul

[John]

Do you use, or intend to use, a coma corrector Paul ?

With 82 degree eyepieces coma with your F/4.7 scope might make the choice between ES 82 and Nagler 82 eyepieces irrelevant ?

[Fogboundturtle]

The Delos series are the best eyepieces I have ever used. That include ES, Nagler and Ethos. They are perfect. I am not the only one who thinks that. One of my buddy sold his whole collection of Ethos and replace them with Delos. They are that good.

[Paul73]

Thanks Mr Turtle - I like them and can't afford the Ethos range even if I could take the 12mm eye relief.

John

I have a Paracorr 1 but it doesn't see much use as I prefer to see coma than astigmatism in the MV 28 & 24. Basically it doesn't clean up the image that much. The ES 30mm is a complete mess until my eyes get properly dark adjusted. I have only had one decent go with it and didn't find the coma intrusive. A more measured analysis might reveal more coma (which would have the Paracorr in like a shot)

So just to make sure that I understand correctly. ES 82° is not as well corrected for coma as the Nagler 82°?

Paul

[swamp thing]

Is the Nagler substantially better than the ES 82° 24mm?

Paul

If the ES is a rebranded meade UWA, then yes the Nagler is way better.

[swamp thing]

Sorry Paul you posted as I did

No eyepiece corrects for coma. For coma correction you need.........well a coma corrector like Paracorr.

[Daniel-K]

Paul the 17.3 Delos is extremely good one of the best I have ever looked through. The only reason I got rid of mine is to move onto 100•

[Daniel-K]

Sorry Paul you posted as I did

No eyepiece corrects for coma. For coma correction you need.........well a coma corrector like Paracorr.

True steve but different eyepieces have better off axis correction.Which makes the need for a coma corrector less.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

Quote:Is the Nagler substantially better than the ES 82° 24mm?

Answer: Visually nope.I would like to see that Nagler personally who claims that it is substantially better.In most nights you will see NO difference between nagler or ExSc 82 degree eye piece.Only under EXCEPTIONAL seeing conditions and high quality mirror you will see a TINY bit better performance what will not happen under UK skies,and if it will happen then it will be most likely maximum 4 nights out of 365 nights.Coma will be the same is it Nagler or is it ExSc or is it Meade.Coma corrector sorts it,but i never needed one in 10" F4.7(again thats personal preference)

Obviously Maxvision has its own ups and downs vs its 82 degree companion,but for dob 82 degree works and i actually found that i was using 24mm 82 deg EP more then the 30mm on occasions for low power views.

Get the ExSc 24mm 82 deg and save a bundle of cash for a round of beer  

[John]

Get the Tele Vue and i) own a superb piece of kit that will last a lifetime, ii) you won't need to be thinking "I wonder ..... ?"

Why put up with 2nd best even if it's only slightly ?

You know what Tele Vue produce because you own the Delos eyepieces

[Fogboundturtle]

Get the Tele Vue and i) own a superb piece of kit that will last a lifetime, ii) you won't need to be thinking "I wonder ..... ?"

Why put up with 2nd best even if it's only slightly ?

You know what Tele Vue produce because you own the Delos eyepieces

I almost regret buying my Delos because it made all the other eyepieces I own gathering dust.

[Paul73]

OK. The Delos is happening

Re the 22 to 24mm question - Dude is the lone voice in favour of the ES and the health of my wallet! Part of me was hoping for a few more posts like that. I am hoping to upgrade to a 16" scope when funds allow. But, being realistic, the mirrors are likely to be at the mass produced end of the spectrum. So would I see any difference? I don't mind if it is only on a handful of nights.

Paul

[Gasmac]

Just to muddy the waters a bit but have you looked at the skywatcher myriad 100• 20mm. It got a really good right up vs the 21mm ethos and will give you a fov larger than your current 28. At 240 quid it seems a bargain.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Paul73]

Skywatcher Myriad??? I'll have a read.

Think that John might have some of these??

Paul

[John]

I have a set of Myriads on loan from First Light Optics Paul. Here is the review I posted of them:

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/236613-skywatcher-myriad-100-110-degree-apparent-field-eyepieces/

Their eye relief is not as comfortable as the Delos though. None of the 100 degree eyepieces are.

[Paul73]

Thanks John

That thread had passed me by. Think that I will stick to the Delos. If I am spending proper time at the eyepiece, it needs to be comfortable.

I had a lovely dark sky session the other week where I used a 20mm comfy eyepiece for 90% of the 3 1/2 hour session.this wouldn't have been possible if the eyepiece wasn't comfortable.

Paul

[John]

I agree that comfort is a great asset for an eyepiece. Amongst the premium performers that I use I'd rate the Pentax XW and Vixen SLV as having the best combination of comfort and optical performance. I had a 10mm Delos for a short while and that was very nice to use as well

Mind you I managed a 4+ hour deep sky session a week or so ago with my 32mm TV plossl and netted 57 galaxies so thats another that I seem to get on well with

[Qualia]

Get the Tele Vue and i) own a superb piece of kit that will last a lifetime, ii) you won't need to be thinking "I wonder ..... ?"

Why put up with 2nd best even if it's only slightly ?

You know what Tele Vue produce because you own the Delos eyepieces

I would only end up writing a page worth of nonsense to basically conclude what John says here

When weighing up what might be the next best move, I would also have a look at true field of view and exit pupil. I know all eyes are different but in the 10" f5, I'm not keen on anything longer than about 5mm and find the optimum around 4mm. Maybe you could cut a half way point and go for the 20mm Nagler instead of the 17mm Delos and 22mm Nagler in your list?

[russ.will]

I had the 8, 12 & 17.3mm Delos. I bought them on the back of the idea that I really liked my MVs, but wanted more eye relief and extra sharpness is never a bad idea. They certainly had more eye relief, but I wasn't that blown away by them in either the F4.9 Dob, or the F10 SCT compared to the MVs. Better, yes, but not by anything like as much as the price would have you believe. There was no wow moment and I found the ER completely excessive for white light solar. No EP does it all, not even a TV.

However, you have two, so you can make that decision for yourself with your eyes. What I will say is that the 17.3mm is no where near par-focal with the rest and for me, it never felt quite like the other Delos either - More like it was a T1 Delos to the others T2, if you follow. It had the same name, ER and FOV, but felt like it came from a different, not quite so complete range. This may not bother you, but it did me - To each their own eyes.

Russell

[alan potts]

Paul,

I would think based on my work on the 24mm version with a green skirt that astigmatism would be a fairly obvious issue at F4.7, I could not ignore it at F5.2. As you say Delos are good but the 17.3mm is the one I don't have so I can't really comment. I think your list stands strong but take note of what John says about the coma issue over the 24mm if you are not using a Paracorr.

Alan

[Paul73]

Thanks Guys

Perversely, I found that the addition of the Paracorr to the 24 & 28mm made the overall view worse as the coma was almost hiding the astigmatism! I find a bit of coma less intrusive than the astigmatism. Now, if I could clear up the astigmatism with carefully chosen eyepieces and the coma with the Paracorr ........

I'm getting the Delos 17.3mm (no response yet from the wanted advert)

The overwhelming vote seems to be going to the 22mm T4. This is even though the bang per buck prize surely goes to the ES82°. I understand that the difference is small, but it would bug me. I'll have to wait for the guilt free funds to come available for this one!

So, given the above, why am I happy with the ES82° 30mm when I could go for the Nagler 31mm? Because, the big Nagler pushes the spending into a league that I wouldn't feel comfortable with given the financial demands of family / house / education etc etc etc..... And I want a bigger scope

Paul

[swamp thing]

 And I want a bigger scope

Now that is the most sensible option of all

[John]

So, given the above, why am I happy with the ES82° 30mm when I could go for the Nagler 31mm? Because, the big Nagler pushes the spending into a league that I wouldn't feel comfortable with given the financial demands of family / house / education etc etc etc..... And I want a bigger scope

Paul

That sounds perfectly rational to me

I was fortunate to find a used Nagler 31 for £200 - very fortunate !

[niallk]

True steve but different eyepieces have better off axis correction.Which makes the need for a coma corrector less.