quad multi lens imaging camera

[DIYASTRO]

Some people who browse this section regularly will be getting to know that I have become somewhat obsessed with multi lens camera systems!

My reasoning initially being that with so little opportunity to use any astro gear in GB under current climatic conditions optimising ones chances has to be worth the effort.

My new venture is building a multi imaging rig using 'identical' components so as to enable four cameras to image same object at same time using filters Ha, Hb, 0III & SII.

I originally wanted to do this some 7 years ago with four reflectors but the cost and mass of such a system is beyond my time availability and wallet!

Inspired with Gina's success with this type of system I began collecting the bits over the last couple of years and have finally begun to manufacture the parts and assemble some of them into a tangible / testable unit. The focus motorisation is using the servo conversion that I posted a few days ago in this section.

Thought I would post some preliminary pics just now, that way I will feel obliged to perhaps finish it!

You will see that it consists of four 100mm f4 lenses (ex binocular parts) for the imaging which at the moment has to be four Cannon 1000d cameras but hope to be able to get hold of four good cameras in the future.

The centre lens is an 80mm with a focal reducer at the rear making it shorter focal length which will be used for the guide camera, the whole thing being mounted within a converted 10" Meade fork mount.

Hope to get it all finished before I move home and will post progress as and when.

Any practical useful suggestions always welcome!

Boyd

[nmoushon]

Very impressive! Will be looking forward to images from it.

[DIYASTRO]

Nmousshon,

Thank you! maybe a little while before any images from this rig!...still quite a task to complete it!

Also thanks to Gina and Psychobilly for your 'likes' post's.

Maybe a few days before more pics of construction but I did receive the final (4th Crayford this afternoon) from Germany would you believe. I advertised for single speed crayfords for a while, some time ago you couldn't help but be tripped up by such things but you try and get hold of e just now!

A little more lathe work and then assembly into go-to modded fork mount and some serious testing to be done. Initial alignment looks very good a little tweak on the final install of that Crayford should do it! I hope!

Boyd

[Dave Lloyd]

Awesome!

[Mick J]

Nice, interesting work Boyd,  where are you going software wise ? 

[DIYASTRO]

Thankyou Dave & Mick J,

Actually, no real software involved until process of images!

I am trying to make some kind of return to analogue control systems! I love my pc's ....all of them... I have eleven! but.... I am attempting to create an observational / photographic recording system based on manual control.

I had an unusual event some years ago when trying to record a meteor shower and power went down, my UPS system lasted about 20mins and I just missed an amazing meteor that some one else captured within my field of view., albeit elsewhere. That left some mark and I have not done any actual astrophotography with any of my cameras since. I will not do so until I am sure that will never happen again. I began making multi cameras some time ago (look for threads in this section under DIYASTRO) Eventually, I will have what I need and my 'pod' in which to operate it all from in the warm...I am very old and no longer able to tolerate the cold!

Dave, your comments are very welcome, but really, it nothing but standard engineering principles brought to bear on a fascinating and yet sometimes complex topic.

Boyd

[Dave_D]

that's pretty neat

[Ajohn]

Neat Boyd.   UK weather encourages DIY in some fields but to be honest I see high mist these days where ever I go.

I have been wondering about another aspect of model servo's etc. They can be controlled via an RC transmitter and receiver, range something over 100m. The transmitter controls would probably need modifying and that would just leave some aspects of the camera and getting images back. Cameras are beginning to offer wifi and android based remote control. Also while on holiday in Turkey I saw a film crew working. A lot of the shots were taken with a flying platform all controlled from an ipad complete with live viewing. Not sure what cameras they were using but there was some concern that TV companies were beginning to ask for 4K video so I'd guess they were just HD.

John

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[DIYASTRO]

Ajohn,

I have seen one or two of these cameras.... they are very interesting for terrestrial stuff but not up to astro specs just yet. A friend was showing me the virtues of a cam that he uses when off road cycling and the capacity for the download of the data / images to be sent to various places via a variety of sources. The problem with the systems used is much the same as with pc control of cameras being that when using multiples of 'identical' cameras pc's need to know which ones they are operating (protocol issues)

I have tried some time ago to use radio control to provide certain functions to some astro gear.... always got interference from other sources which messed around with critical movement of servos and motor drives etc. I am sure that things have moved on since then... I havnt kept up to speed on lots of modern developments and rely on forums such as this one to glean some insight into modern technological advances.

I have just spent the last hour working on the German import of the last Crayford required for the rear focus plate....had to cut off the shaft / focus knobs with saw since they have been so tightly fitted and glued as well as the grub screw tightened so tight that it embedded in the steel shaft so far to ensure that you can not remove the focus hand wheels! Finally got it sorted but took a lot longer than it should have.

Should be in position to show a couple more pics of progress very soon.

Boyd

[Ajohn]

I believe that the change of RF frequency has helped interference a lot.

Your over all aims are interesting. I sometimes feel that telescopes have remained in the past and have also got worse in some respects. The worse aspects are probably down to doing a number of things with PC's early on so they have stuck around.

Worse - this for instance runs on a few AA cells

http://www.opticsplanet.com/meade-starfinder-eq-telescope.html

I have the 10in version of it and often wish I had got my hands on the early Magellan goto for it. Things are changing though as rather a lot of computing power is available that doesn't use a lot juice now but no signs of the manufacturers making use of it. People like ASCOM don't help either. Windows and PC's are assumed and I for one can't find any low level information on the protocol they use. Even Meade are better than that and some others fortunately.

John

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[DIYASTRO]

John,

Yes I do believe that some intense progress has been made with R/C transmission interference. I just have not had time to follow it!

Understand completely your thoughts on some of the older mount drivers such as Meade Meg. I agree, no one seems to be taking full advantage current pc programming and it has become a case of DIY. Isnt that what RasburyPi and other peripherals are about? I think what I am trying to say is that you are having to develop the program yourself which in many instances is terrific. I personally don't think I need it, quite happy to have a lot of cables linked to circuits that I have designed and constructed to do the mandatory task of instructing a motor to forward or reverse. The other advantage with what I am trying to achieve is that by design / building yourself ...repairs are more possible!

Back to the Quad camera!

Managed to grab an hour or so today and finish the final Crayford focuser and complete the four mechanical/r/c servo conversion drives for the focus. Just tested them out individually and all well so far!

Its getting quite heavy for a single structure coming in at 11.9Kg without the four Canons!

I know that my Fork mount can take that, just need to take care with the balancing.

Hope to do a little more with the mounting assembly plates in the next few days so as to allow some serious testing of the whole system.

Boyd

[DIYASTRO]

Had a little time to make up the camera support plates to enable the rig to be attached to the Meade 10" fork mount.

Hope to be able to get the rig into that in the next day or two.

I should then be able to connect up the Canon cameras and begin any fine adjustments for each camera alignment, and test the focus system.

Boyd

[DIYASTRO]

Took a break from house packing late this afternoon and began the fit up of the quad camera with a Meade 10" fork mount.

The mount still requires a 're-fit' to enable goto capability, and I hope to change the drive motors and gears to enable this soon.

I know need to think on how to design and build the control console for it too!

The 4th Canon 1000d is absent from the rig because that's the one I used to take the pics with!

Boyd

[DIYASTRO]

Gina, thankyou for your 'likes post'

I have been looking at the guidescope camera requirement!

Tested the optics with a Philips spc900nc today, comes to focus very well using the helical focus tube and the small servo motor / gear drive. This is still a dc motor at the moment but hope to be able to do the conversion to stepper type when I get some micro stepper motors from China! (re;- my thread in this section R/C servo conversion)

The camera housing that I am using is 62mm diameter and fits inside the helical focus tube just nice. However, I am thinking about which camera I will eventually be using for the guiding and have been looking at the LVI smartguider 2.

I quite like the idea of the 'stand alone' and no PC!

What I cannot seem to get is the actual 'physical dimensions' for this camera. Anyone reading this who has one may be able to tell me or, perhaps point in right direction for the info? The current helical can be reduced in length without too much trouble and that would allow a camera diameter of around 70mm to be used. (pics may help to see what I mean)

Anyway, so far so good, really nice bright image from the guidescope, it has helped a great deal to place a focal reducer in the optic train giving a greatly reduced focal length and much better focal ratio.

Boyd

[Ajohn]

They give the sizes of the guide camera here as DxH 65x50mm in the product overview

http://www.lvi-cameras.com/download_eng.asp

Interesting product and well priced compared with others I have noticed - and can do more too.

John

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[happy-kat]

Love reading these great projects.

[DIYASTRO]

Thanks to all who have posted likes!

I have some hopes for this particular rig and look forward to eventually sharing an image or two when I get around to doing the control console.

Ajohn, many thanks for your link, I have got a printout of the specs for the LVI 2 smartguider but along with lots of other stuff that I would like to lay my hands on... packed in boxes ready to move house... nightmare!

I am giving serious thought to the smartguider, but just cannot get my head around making a definite decision on it! Perhaps if one comes up for sale in the classifieds or elsewhere at a decent price that may decide for me?

I am just beginning to sort out the focus drive electronics for the five cameras (inc. guidescope).

Also, took delivery of a cctv colour quad processor some days ago. This will allow the four Canon 1000d's video output to be displayed on a single large flat monitor to visually see the focus 'in action'. The quad processor also has a VCR in/out so may treat myself to a four channel DVR so as to record the video signal digitally. The timed images from the cameras will be recorded to the sd card in the camera's.

Quite a lot to do, so can spend some time thinking about which system to use for guiding, I may just opt and buy a QHY camera to a small laptop which I have which does have the advantage of less cost.

Hope to post some images of the focus drive electronics soon.

Boyd

[DIYASTRO]

I have been taking a look at the stepper motor driver boards that I will be using for the focus.

Some modifications required in order to panel mount them the way I want to.

The main problem is some of the connections require reconnecting to the reverse of the board. The small tactile switches are also quite inaccessible when panel mounted.

You will see from the pics that separate remote switches would be better, fortunately quite easy to modify.

Easy to see from the pics that most of the connections that I have removed are spaced to allow std PCB male headers which will then connect the separate switches to the circuit and also the four leads to the stepper motor / servo drive.

Have started to mark out the panel for the five pcb's and the 10 push to make switches for the forward / reverse commands. A further 5 PTM switches required for the speed selection control.

Just ordered more switches from Maplin and a few nylon stand offs to mount the pcb's to the console face plate.

Once I get an operational focus panel sorted I can do some image testing and tweek the alignment of the lenses / cameras.

Boyd

[Mick J]

That looks good, I have one of these boards/remotes from ebay, keep meaning to connect a diy focuser motor to it, impressed with the additional connectors, good stuff again Boyd, looking forward to seeing this progress.

[DIYASTRO]

Hi Mick, Many thanks for your reply and like post!

Yes.... I got my boards from ebay, very reasonable price, wish I had brought more of them.

As you will have seen since you have one, the tactile switches are ok for just testing but if you want to panel mount then you would need some 'button' to contact the pcb switch to activate it. I have opted for separate switches to be placed where I would like them on the control panel.

The same is true for the 4 pin skt that connects to the stepper motor, just on the wrong side of the PCB. Easy to swop it round but since I need a longer cable for this anyway I went for PCB headers.

Begun to drill the panel mount to take these PCB's and the switches. Will post some pics of it soon, although I am short of 6 PTM switches which hopefully will arrive very soon!

Boyd

[Ajohn]

Thank you for mentioning the smart guide Boyd. I might just go in that direction. I'd be happier if it would interface with other cameras but as Linux telescope software mostly seems to live on the wild side, latest greatest, compile errors and other problems I might look at what can be done with it easily.  An arduino actuating the buttons on the controller etc - no probably only kidding but I'm feeling really cheesed off having just used Linux for over 15 years now. I'm embarassed by some of what I see so probably wont ever mention open source to anyone again  not in this area anyway.

John

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[DIYASTRO]

Ajohn,

Thanks for reply.

Never used Linux to my shame. Have quite a few Pc's but mostly windows XP which was my favourite OP system, although windows 7 is really ok. My Son informed me some time ago to steer clear of windows 8 so I have done so. Whenever I look for another pc I now look for older machines with windows 7!

I do remember something's from the LVI smartguider 2 specs that I packed in a box along with most of my other treasures!

I would simply like to get hold of one to see just what can be 'converted'!

I am sure the simple screen could be 'electronically channelled' to a 7" lcd type screen for example. Its simply a video output, the OSD is usually std and I have 'redone' these on Phil Dyer cameras to make it more convenient to use remotely. The other stuff that it does is very interesting.... control of DSLR is very interesting and in my current requirement for this rig could be very useful. I would really like to get hold of one ! You mention similar ideas in a way by saying 'actuating the buttons via arduino'.... not much difference from using cmos analogue chips and some switches!

The panel for the focus control is coming along well, just wish I had the other six push button switches to finish it off and wire it all up so as to get the rig 'semi-operational'

Boyd

[Ajohn]

Looking at the spec of the smart guider I suspect the auto focus just performs temperature compensation. Focusing is what has put me in a bad mood. I finally found out what is in a 2 channel arduino unit on the INDI site. Best say no more but the word stupid comes to mind.

John

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[DIYASTRO]

Ajohn,

Not too sure exactly what the LVI may be capable of,  I would like to get a circuit diagram of it all and suspect it may be capable of a bit more! 

I cannot really comment on any aspect of Arduino or RasPi etc. It a system that I have spent a lot of time and energy to try and avoid!  They have great merit I am sure in the correct hands but when you are trying to avoid the use of pc's they hold little value for me but as I say quite ignorant of the potential capabilities.

Did some work on the focus electronic panel, ... just need some more switches to arrive then wire up and begin testing. I have laid out the panel to match the visual display of the colour quad processor  which puts the image for each of the four cameras on the flat screen.

Perhaps these pics will show why I changed the connections to the PCB's and enabled panel mounting.

Boyd

[Mick J]

More good work Boyd,  I am guessing you are not using the remote fob with these boards.   Looking over at the servo thread, have you replaced the original servo motors with steppers ?  if so which one's if you don't mind me asking.