Ep advice - should I get a ES 14mm 100 degree EP?

[DannyHarvey]

I have a C11 SCT - up to now I have only really done planetary/moon imaging. I have a few plossl's and a zoom ep but i'm thinking of getting into the visual side of things. My viewing site isn't too dark either - it's near Heathrow airport! It's better than central London however. The site is to the north of Heathrow which is generally semi rural. 

I thinking of a wide field EP to look at the Moon and also nebs and other faint stuff, but primarily for the Moon. This ep is  to get me started with visual. I have hear these wide angle EP give a great viewing experience.

I have seen the Explore scientific 14mm 100 degree EP this should give me with the C11 2800/14 = 200 times mag and a field of view of 100/200 1/2 a degree so I should get the whole moon in.

I also have a Antares 1.6 x 2 inch barlow - that should give me some extra mag for close up Moon surfing (will this combination work well?).

Does anybody have any opinions on this? Should I pick something that gives less mag or something cheaper perhaps?

r.

Danny

[DannyHarvey]

Just thought too - I will probably need a ND filter for the Moon - any ideas which one I should use?

[swamp thing]

Just thought too - I will probably need a ND filter for the Moon - any ideas which one I should use?

Try observing the moon without first. Always try without kit, it can save you money.

The 14mm ES is a great eyepiece, go for it.

[John]

I've owned the ES 20mm 100 degree and it's an excellent eyepiece. The reports on the 14mm indicate that it's at least as good.

If you wear glasses when observing you might struggle though as the eye relief of these eyepieces is 14.5mm and feels like a little less in use.

Personally I don't find the need to use lunar filters even with my 12" scope.

The Antares barlow works very well with the Ethos eyepieces so I see no reason that it should not work with the ES 100's.

I'm testing the Skywatcher Myriad 100 / 110 degree eyepieces at the moment (20mm, 9mm, 5mm and 3.5mm) and they are very impressive too. There is a gap in the Myriad range though around 12-15mm.

[DannyHarvey]

mmm the Myriad 20 looks nice.. bit cheaper than the ES 14 too

[mert]

I have the ES 20mm 100 and it's a great eyepiece, it's the most used in my scope. Some international sellers on eBay sell these ES eyepieces at very good prices.

[Bart]

Hi

I have the ES 100* 20mm and the 14mm. There're my most used EPs. The 20mm gives me x90 and so is great for hunting the galaxies and then switch to the 14mm when found. Great EPs both. If I was flush, I'd probably get the 9mm[emoji22]

Can't imagine you'd regret it. Didn't realise the Myriads were less expensive. Try TS or ES in Germany, they have decent prices for the 100* range. Good luck

Barry

[Astro_Baby]

I am lukewarm at best to the whole 100' thing.  I have an ES 14mm but would not invest in more 100' EPs.  I dont think the cost is worth it and personally I don't think the views are that amazing either (after the first few nights at any rate) so have dropped back to 70-80' stuff.

Eyepieces are intensely personal things but I wonder, given the long focal length of an SCT which makes just about anything work well, whether you might be better served by a narrower field of view.  Be wary of low power wide angles, one of mine produces a hideous ring of fire in my Mak due to the EP filed lens being just slightly bigger than the exit port/baffle diameter of the tube.

I just wonder whether 100' is really worth the cost - only you can judge this.

I would urge a moon filter or ND filter though because a largish scope with a 100' 14mm in it will make the moon look like the sun on a dark night.  I have done it a few times and after staring at the moon through the 14mm for about half an hour my eyeball felt as if I had been at the Ivy Mike hydrogen bomb test with no dark glasses - something akin to flash blindness - I was still seeing in the moon in my right eye about an hour later with my eyes closed  Quite good though - I could make out a lot of detail

[DRT]

I have Es 68° and 82° EPs and also have an Ethos 13mm. Whilst I really like the Ethos I do not think I would buy another one as I find the 100° FOV impossible to see from side to side. Putting the Moon in that in my CPC1100 causes me to be moving my head to see across the disk.

Unless cost is no object I would seriously consider the ES 82° range - they are excellent and very much cheaper than their wider field siblings.

I haven't used the Antares barlow but I have never managed to get a good result with the 1100 and barlows, even the TeleVue 2x which is about as good as you get without going up to the Powermate/TeleExtender ranges.

[John]

Peoples ability to see the whole of a 100 degree field of view varies a lot I've found. A recent thread on this topic on another forum threw up a complete mix of responses from those who struggled to see the whole of any field wider than 68 degrees to those who could see the whole of even a 120 degree field without a problem. As well as the specifications and properties of the eyepiece I reckon facial shape, the setting of the eye and the shape of the nose and just preferences for facial / eye placement when at the eyepiece can all play a role.

Having tried 4 ranges of 100 degree eyepieces now (Ethos, ES 100, William Optics XWA and the Myriads) one thing they have in common, quite apart from the massive field of view, is excellent optics. The Ethos are a small step up optically from the 82 degree Nagler in my opinion and the Myriad similarly from the 84 degree UWAN / Nirvanas. I strongly suspect this is also the case with the ES 100's and the ES 82's as well. So you are not surrendering optical quality to get the wider field.

Whether you want the experience is a personal choice of course and there is additional cost to pay to get it.

I've been a widefield junkie for the the past 30+ years so I do love using them. I can't see the edges of the field with the 110 degree 5mm and 3.5mm Myriads though but seeing the edge of the field is not what I'm interested in when I use an ultra / hyper wide eyepiece - it's the apparently limitless field of stars that I'm after

I ought to say that I also use 40, 50, 60 and 70 degree eyepieces and enjoy those too so I'm not totally a hopeless case

The Antares 1.6x 2" barlow does happen to work excellently with 100 degree eyepieces and the Tele Vue Powermate is even better. The latter adds a lot of length to whats in the diagonal though !

[DRT]

WOW! Never thought I would see a 31mm Nag T5 looking a little inadequate!

I think you are correct, John. I often read things here about people's experience of using particular EPs and they are completely different to mine. Personal choice and how our eyes and brains work is a big part of the experience so there is no substitute for trying the kit to see if it suits you. The good news with these top end EPs is that if you buy them second hand you will rarely lose money if you decide they don't work for you.

[Astro_Baby]

John.......Thats interesting that others might also feel 100' is not for them.  I thought I was a lone voice on this. When the Ethos first appeared I had a look through one at a star party and was wowed initially but at the time the Ethos was pretty pricey (£500 from  memory) and I couldn't justify spending that much on a single EP.  Then the ES came along and in the very early days of it ES were offering all kinds of whacky deals and I bought mine in the states (exchange rate was excellent at the time) at a really good price (I think it was about £250 at the time).  Mine is numbered number 41 so you can see how early mine was.

For a few sessions it had a sort of wow factor (and in fairness it still impresses novices, small children, probably the cat if she could be persuaded to have a peek) but taken as a whole I found the edge of the view was actually distracting from the centre of the view, not because of any aberrations just the fact that stuff is at the edge of my eye became a nuisance more often than not.  Its like when you catch stuff in the corner of your eye. I said as much when I reviewed the ES in the early days - its a fine piece of glass, a technical triumph but do you (or I) really need it.

I find when observing I am only looking at the very centre on most occasions so apart from a few views (double cluster for instance) the edge was just plain annoying. The human eyeball is optimised at about 70' by mother nature and that kind of fitted my own experience.  I wouldn't sell the ES 14mm on as it was a birthday gift and it would be rude to do so (by rude I mean I would have to explain and partner might get all prickly and use rude words) but it gets little use usually.  I opted to stay go with stuff around 70' after the ES and went the Pentax route - clean glass and ortho like but with 70 and very comfy eye positioning - I have tended to place a premium on comfort myself (which has in fact caused dometic upset and a loss of domestic comfort - especially when I bought a Pentax XW 30 - other half was most unreasonable about me spending the money - well what was I to do ? - it was the last XW 30 on a shelf anywhere and it would have been insane not to buy it I am sure most here would agree).

I find with a 100' I have to keep swivelling my eyeball about inside the cup of the EP which I find quite tiring.  I can see the point if you have a Dob and don't want to keep bumping the scope but on a powered mount it seems to make no sense to me to spend out on super wide  - in matter of taste there can be no dispute and undeniably some people like them - as I always say EPs are personal thing....one persons Nirvana is another persons poison.  I suspect you are right - face shape, how your eyes are set, the acuity of your vision all play a part.

Now if someone would get round to inventing an EP that can see through clouds that most definitely would get my vote

[Bart]

Ha John

That's a beast of a thing. I have used it in the past and nearly took my eye out as you reach the EP a lot sooner than normal and the focussing knob seems miles away. Even the CC pushes it a bit out as well.

Again interesting to hear the Myriad is very good optically.

Barry

[Charic]

Interesting views (excuse the pun) between John and Astro-baby.

I'm not missing out on  the 100° wide-fields, because I have never experienced EP's with those extremes.  The largest I posses is 70°. That said, I abide by Al Nagler's view that the best results are simply achieved when the target is best framed! and maybe leaving  just a little border to keep the target in context with its surround? 

Does this not only make these EPs  exclusive and expensive due to the massive fields available, and the amount of glass therein, but does it not also make the EP more specific to only a select few targets.

[DRT]

I abide by Al Nagler's view that the best results are simply achieved when the target is best framed! and maybe leaving  just a little border to keep the target in context with its surround? 

Does this not only make these EPs  exclusive and expensive due to the massive fields available, and the amount of glass therein, but does it not also make the EP more specific to only a select few targets.

I agree that they are expensive luxuries, but they also allow some larger targets to be framed at reasonably high mag using scopes with a narrow FOV, such as an SCT. My Ethos 13mm and Nagler 31mm are particularly useful for looking at the Sun, the Moon, M45, etc through the CPC1100. That said, I find that 70-80 degrees gives me almost all I need, which is why I don't see another Ethos or an ES100 in my future.

[Charic]

DRT I sometimes forget that all scopes are not equal and require (sometimes) more in an eyepiece than is 'normal' to achieve the views required for the end user from the scopes you mention, and to correct the image in faster Newtonian's than mine.

Seems I did ok in choosing an f/6 middle of the road telescope. Not so  many issues to contend with  and cheaper to run?

[John]

As I said, there is more to 100 degree eyepieces than just the massive field of view. The ones I've owned / used / use possess a range of excellent optical characteristics too.

One practical application of such an eyepiece is to deliver the ellusive combination of an effective exit pupil AND maximum field of view in fast scopes.

Not an issue in the SCT's that Danny the original poster has though.

Having owned 30+ scopes of varying designs and quality and having tried many eyepiece designs from cheap to expensive in them I have no doubt that a quality eyepiece will benefit any scope that it's used in.

I had a Skyliner 200P F/6 dob not so long ago Charic and the Nagler's and single Ethos that I owned back then produced some great views 

You don't need a Takahashi, Astro Physics or an Obsession to see the benefit from top quality eyepieces, whatever their field of view 

[DannyHarvey]

well the deed has been done! In the end I thought I might as well give one a try and see for myself! Thanks for the tip to buy from TS in Germany that was the final thing that swung it as they are cheaper from TS.

thanks everyone for your views and comments they were much appreciated.

r.

Danny 

[Astro_Baby]

Do post up and let us all know how you like it.  I agree with John on the quality thing - good quality EPs will always make any scope work better than operating with lower cost ones in most cases.  

[Bart]

[quote name="DannyHarvey" post="2544993" timestamp="Thanks for the tip to buy from TS in Germany that was the final thing that swung it as they are cheaper from TS.

r.

Danny

I bought my 10" dob from them. Very pleasant gentlemen to deal with. Courteous and businesslike. Excellent deal too.

Barry

[DannyHarvey]

@Astro Baby - I will do that.

Dan 

[DannyHarvey]

I am told that they are out of stock so now the wait begins...

[DannyHarvey]

Still waiting for them to re-stock....

[DRT]

You might have a long wait. The manufacturer's own website is quoting a 120 working day re-stocking estimate

[DRT]

But you could get one here if you are happy to buy from abroad.