Setting Polaris to Transit Point

[Lonestar70]

Hi Davey,

This is what you should get: -

Good luck,

Sandy.

Jason Dale Polar Finder.doc

[Davey-T]

Thanks Sandy, that's the one I used to have on an old laptop, not sure where I got the rubbish one from.

Dave

[Lonestar70]

Hi Tony,

I had a feeling this was what you were trying to do... no need to feel you are being stupid... I think most of us had the same problem at first, until we learned the error of doing it that way.  

Frankly I would forget about the polarscope scales... they are not very accurate and tend to slip out of calibration position when using your mount... even if you do calibrate them, they can be a devil of a job to use in the dark (even with a head torch).

I don't think you will find many members who use them... most prefer Polar Finder or EQMOD and for astrophotography you will probably find you need to Drift Align the mount for better accuracy anyway.

Keep happy.

Best regards.

Sandy.

[t0ny]

Hi Tony,

I had a feeling this was what you were trying to do... no need to feel you are being stupid... I think most of us had the same problem at first, until we learned the error of doing it that way.  

Frankly I would forget about the polarscope scales... they are not very accurate and tend to slip out of calibration position when using your mount... even if you do calibrate them, they can be a devil of a job to use in the dark (even with a head torch).

I don't think you will find many members who use them... most prefer Polar Finder or EQMOD and for astrophotography you will probably find you need to Drift Align the mount for better accuracy anyway.

Keep happy.

Best regards.

Sandy.

Thanks for making me feel less stupid!

So aligning the Reticule is all I need to do prior to going outside?  Then I put Polaris in the smaller circle and let the hand controller or (in a few weeks or so) EQMod take over?

Thanks again!!

[Lonestar70]

Hi Tony,

Yes just place polaris in the small circle... But remember to rotate the small circle to the correct time/location as specified in Polar Finder.

You just rotate the RA of the mount to achieve this.

After you have done the polar alignment return the mount to The Home Position ( weight straight down and scope pointing north) manually (by releasing the clutches).then turn the power off and On again... this will reset the handset to home position.

Then use the handset to do a star alignment for Goto calibration... and spend some time getting used to the goto functions... even take a few pictures if you like.

When you want to pack up, use the handset to park the scope then power down.

It all takes a bit of getting used to, but it soon becomes easier.

Good luck and clear skies.

Sandy.

EDIT: You will probably find you need to re-enter the time and date again after cycling the power... the handset does not remember these... but it does remember the location co-ordinates.

Another good reason to go for EQMOD... it remembers everything.

[t0ny]

Hi Tony,

Yes just place polaris in the small circle... But remember to rotate the small circle to the correct time/location as specified in Polar Finder.

You just rotate the RA of the mount to achieve this.

After you have done the polar alignment return the mount to The Home Position ( weight straight down and scope pointing north) manually (by releasing the clutches).then turn the power off and On again... this will reset the handset to home position.

Then use the handset to do a star alignment for Goto calibration... and spend some time getting used to the goto functions... even take a few pictures if you like.

When you want to pack up, use the handset to park the scope then power down.

It all takes a bit of getting used to, but it soon becomes easier.

Good luck and clear skies.

Sandy.

EDIT: You will probably find you need to re-enter the time and date again after cycling the power... the handset does not remember these... but it does remember the location co-ordinates.

Another good reason to go for EQMOD... it remembers everything.

You know when you nod to say you get it, when secretly you don't? I was going to do that, but I think to make my life easier I won't.

Yes just place polaris in the small circle... But remember to rotate the small circle to the correct time/location as specified in Polar Finder.

1. Using PolarFinder (the one by JD), I slap in my Longitude and the current time.

2. I visually see where PolarFinder says Polaris should be and replicate that (as best I can) in the PolarScope.

3. Adjusting the Altitude and Azimuth bolts I get Polaris into the centre of the small circle.

If I do this, I am Polar Aligned?

I understand this is good for Visual and short photography, but for replicating Hubble quality stuff with my 6" Newt I need to learn what 'Drift Alignment' is all about?

Thanks again, I hope (if my 3 steps are correct) I am understanding something at last!

If I place Polaris in the small circle (the one attached to the bigger one), but then rotate the RA axis will it not no longer contain Polaris?

[t0ny]

I can't edit my post, so ignore the bottom line where I misunderstood! 

[lensman57]

You know when you nod to say you get it, when secretly you don't? I was going to do that, but I think to make my life easier I won't.

1. Using PolarFinder (the one by JD), I slap in my Longitude and the current time.

2. I visually see where PolarFinder says Polaris should be and replicate that (as best I can) in the PolarScope.

3. Adjusting the Altitude and Azimuth bolts I get Polaris into the centre of the small circle.

If I do this, I am Polar Aligned?

I understand this is good for Visual and short photography, but for replicating Hubble quality stuff with my 6" Newt I need to learn what 'Drift Alignment' is all about?

Thanks again, I hope (if my 3 steps are correct) I am understanding something at last!

If I place Polaris in the small circle (the one attached to the bigger one), but then rotate the RA axis will it not no longer contain Polaris?

If you place the Polaris in the centre of the small circle and rotate the RA and Polaris drifts then not only you are not Polar aligned but also your polar scope is not aligned with the mount. The easiest way of aligning the polar scope with the mount axis is during daytime and using a small distant point of reference and adjusting the small grub screws on the scope with very small turns, 1/8th at a time. Forget Hubble scope quality images for now and get the basics right. I doubt very much that you'd be imaging with 1800s subs for a while yet but it will come . There are quite a few tutorials regarding the alignment on the web if you Google for it.

A.G

[t0ny]

Oh...Are my points 1 to 3 not correct to do a rough Polar Align?

[lensman57]

Oh...Are my points 1 to 3 not correct to do a rough Polar Align?

They will do for comfortable observing but not serious imaging runs.

A.G

[t0ny]

They will do for comfortable observing but not serious imaging runs.

A.G

By this do you mean some short exposures should be OK, but for serious imaging runs I jump to Drift Alignment etc?

[Lonestar70]

Hi Tony,

Yes ... with a bit of care getting the polar alignment as close as possible using the polar scope you should manage 25- 30 second exposures with very little star trailing.

To get more (longer exposures) you will need to drift align and add guiding to the mix... but that can come later.

You can learn a lot with 25 - 30 second exposures.

Enjoy.

Sandy.

[JamesF]

When I used a polar scope I did all the alignment during the day.

To get the polar scope aligned with the RA axis I used AstroBaby's method.  It's a bit laborious, but does the job nicely.

To get the Polaris marker in the right orientation it's merely necessary to be aware that Polaris transits the NCP at midnight on 1st November.  That means if the time and date rings are set to midnight on 1st November, the Polaris marker should appear at the bottom of the reticle, vertically below the centre.  It's easy enough to check that by viewing some convenient vertical such as a door through the polar scope.

Once that's all done during the day, night-time alignment is just a question of setting the current date and time (in GMT) on the rings and using the alt and az adjusters to put Polaris in its marker.  Do it without the OTA and counterweights on, then you're less likely to bend the bolts.  Check it again after they're put on.  Job done.

James

[thohem]

Maybe odd to write my method but here I go

1) check at daytime that your polarscope is aligned with the mount. Point it at an object far away and rotate RA. The crosshair in the middle has to stay spot on.

2) at night: set everything up, power mount and remember one value from the handcontroller: polaris clock.

3) look through PS and rotate RA so that the small circle (where polaris has to be) is at that clock position you got in 2).

4) get polaris in the center of the circle with the bolts

5) put your telescope onto the mount, calibrate goto and your finished.

For a more accurate method you can use the scales.

1) check PS orientation (crosshair stays spot on)

2) rotate RA till the small circle is pointing DOWN (12o'clock position of polaris because it's upside down). Set the scale to this position at ZERO

3) at night: set up mount, know BOTH numbers: clock AND polaris HA.

4) rotate RA till your scale matches the value polaris HA you got from 3). Use upper scale for northern hemisphere.

5) look through PS and see that the small circle is at the value you got from 3) (clock of polaris).

6) get polaris into the circle

So if the polaris HA says 20h45min and clock says 7:37. Use scale to rotate RA to 20h45min. Look through PS and see that polaris circle is spot on 7:37 clockwise.

CS

Thomas

[Yearofthegoat]

@James - that's cleared it right up!  I was following AstroBaby's guide and it wasn't quite clear that the date mark gets fixed - i.e. offset relative to the RA index mark - when Polaris is known to be at the bottom of the polarscope reticule.  Then it doesn't matter if the date circle gets moved - just put the longitude 0 next to the mark then rotate the RA until today's date lines up with the current time and bingo! Polaris should then be in the little circle.

Awesome!

And now I'm going to bed as it's cloudy and my brains are fried....

[JamesF]

Excellent

James

[Astrosurf]

1.  All I do is have the mount set at the home position, using the RA marker I made while following Astronomyshed's (Dion Heap's) YouTube tutorials. Someone please provide a link! The site's blocked here at work.

2.  My scope is levelled, as I find that makes Polaris easier to find, as well as making sure the altitude scale on the side of the mount is as close to your location as possible. It changes each time you adjust the Alt bolts. Mine's 52 degrees. I put a spirit level on my tripod's  EP tray to level the mount. I find it's accurate enough.

3.  I then check PolarFinder (or my phone app) for Polaris's hour angle, then (with Dec rotated so I can see through the polarscope) I move Polaris using the Alt and Az bolts to get it on the hour angle. I don't bother with the little circle.

4.  I then rotate RA to ensure Polaris doesn't drift off. It never does. Put RA back to home position.

5.  I then set the Dec to park  too (again using the marker from Dion's Vid)

6.  I put on my scope and stuff.

7.  I have a quick check that Polaris hasn't moved, especially if I'm on grass, and tweak if necessary. Do be carful with the Alt bolts while you have equipment on. They're not very strong!

That's all I do!

Alexxx

[Yearofthegoat]

Where did you put your RA marker? I also followed those vids and found that as he's using the NEQ6 (I think), his pointer is on the bit that moves, whereas on the HEQ5 it's on the bit that stays still.  I thought about the polarscope cover for about 2 seconds before realising that that won't end up in the same position each time. The setting circles are no good cos they'll move, that left the top of the case above a square cover - would need two marks as it's not close to the RA pointer.

Or have I misunderstood altogether?!

Thanks for all the help on here though, it really does help understand what's going on.

[Uranium235]

Ok, Polaralign (JD version). Its pretty easy, and you dont need to be concerned with transits etc. And its good enough to PA for an imaging run lasting all night with no dropped subs.

A quick runthrough:

1) Enter your Lat/Long, this will be the only time you need to do it. It will then display where polaris should be at that particular time (takes time from your system clock).

2) Looking through your polarscope, rotate the RA axis slightly so the crosshair in the polarscope is like the crosshair on polarfinder (like this: +). Take a moment to get that right.

3) Now use the alt/az adjustment bolts to put Polaris on the outer circle in your polarscope - where polarfinder says where it should be.

4) Now rotate the RA axis back and forth a bit..... does Polaris stay on the line? If it does, job done! If its strays a little, return to the + position and tweak. Then check to see if it stays on the line again.

You can afford a little drift off the line, in fact a slight mis-alignment can help with the guiding (gives the guider and motors/gears something to do).

The whole process is done and dusted in just a couple of min.

[lensman57]

Ok, Polaralign (JD version). Its pretty easy, and you dont need to be concerned with transits etc. And its good enough to PA for an imaging run lasting all night with no dropped subs.

A quick runthrough:

1) Enter your Lat/Long, this will be the only time you need to do it. It will then display where polaris should be at that particular time (takes time from your system clock).

2) Looking through your polarscope, rotate the RA axis slightly so the crosshair in the polarscope is like the crosshair on polarfinder (like this: +). Take a moment to get that right.

3) Now use the alt/az adjustment bolts to put Polaris on the outer circle in your polarscope - where polarfinder says where it should be.

4) Now rotate the RA axis back and forth a bit..... does Polaris stay on the line? If it does, job done! If its strays a little, return to the + position and tweak. Then check to see if it stays on the line again.

You can afford a little drift off the line, in fact a slight mis-alignment can help with the guiding (gives the guider and motors/gears something to do).

The whole process is done and dusted in just a couple of min.

Thank you Rob, at last a simple explanation. I thought that I had been doing it wrong for the last couple of years ( well not that long exactly ).

Regards,

A.G

[wxsatuser]

R

Ok, Polaralign (JD version). Its pretty easy, and you dont need to be concerned with transits etc. And its good enough to PA for an imaging run lasting all night with no dropped subs.

A quick runthrough:

1) Enter your Lat/Long, this will be the only time you need to do it. It will then display where polaris should be at that particular time (takes time from your system clock).

2) Looking through your polarscope, rotate the RA axis slightly so the crosshair in the polarscope is like the crosshair on polarfinder (like this: +). Take a moment to get that right.

3) Now use the alt/az adjustment bolts to put Polaris on the outer circle in your polarscope - where polarfinder says where it should be.

4) Now rotate the RA axis back and forth a bit..... does Polaris stay on the line? If it does, job done! If its strays a little, return to the + position and tweak. Then check to see if it stays on the line again.

You can afford a little drift off the line, in fact a slight mis-alignment can help with the guiding (gives the guider and motors/gears something to do).

The whole process is done and dusted in just a couple of min.

At last a simple explanation.

Although I have just about mastered PA with the HEQ5..............glad I built the obsy with permanent setup.

[Uranium235]

lensman57, on 13 Jan 2015 - 01:02 AM, said:

Thank you Rob, at last a simple explanation. I thought that I had been doing it wrong for the last couple of years ( well not that long exactly ).

Regards,

A.G

If you've been doing it using the method I described, then it certainy is right  we cant be doing with all that faffing about with setting circles and transits while a clear sky passes us by.

In the end, the proof of the pudding is in the eating - and if your graph is flat(ish) and your stars are round, then thats all we're intrested in really. I've found this to be the easiest/quickest/most reliable method for PA - especially as I have no obsy, so I have to set up and break down for each session.