Mono Jupiter Animation 29th Dec

[neil phillips]

Heres a 5 image sequence from the 29th  Dec  getting the sharpening and levels even, I find sometimes, is better to do by eye. As I have here. If you keep the same settings on all images. often it will look uneven, Different seeing, and light levels camera settings all conspire to make the images uneven.  But to a degree it can be guessed out visually

As a example one of these sequences is shot at 30 fps. 1/30th secs exposure, while the rest were 60 I didn't think I could balance it. But it looks fairly even. so it can be done by eye.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Very good!

[leelee970]

Fantastic, well done.

Lee

[Kokatha man]

Yes, you've done a good job with the consistency on this animation Neil!!!    

I find it pretty necessary to match them at the end using my eyes...very stable/consistent seeing etc can make the animation gel right from the word go but it often needs that final manual tweaking of "rogue frames."

[Space Cowboy]

Very nicely done Neil!

[simmo39]

wow!

[si@nite]

Nice one Neil!

[neil phillips]

Cheers All

Annoying just found another one that fits the animation   might add it on later

Been working on another colour run from the same night here. ive got too many captures floating around my head its going cosmic

My processing is going in new directions lately not sure if I am helping or hurting the images . Need to look back later with fresh perspective. Trying to get as much fine detail out but without too much noise

[Freddie]

Nice, well worth the effort.

[neil phillips]

Cheers Freddie. All the info is in the red. I cant seem to get any good blues though

[1parsec]

Great animation and the levels, frame to frame, are spot on.  What is the period between frames ?

Dave.

[neil phillips]

Great animation and the levels, frame to frame, are spot on.  What is the period between frames ?

Dave.

Cheers It tends to vary. But the time between the first red and the second was about 17 Mins.

I don't have animations in mind when I take them. It could be time taken fine focusing. or going indoors for a sec, any reason.

The time span isn't critical as long as it isn't really short, unless you have a lot of them. Or overly long, As you will get big jumps

[neil phillips]

Interestingly here's a capture I've  just done, taken on the 20th Dec 9 days before showing roughly the same area.

Colour I cant seem to get right. Its all this contrast stretching and using reds as lums on winjupos.

[Pete Presland]

Cracking animation and a couple of very nice images as well.

[GaryCH]

Awesome giff Neil, bravo!

[SnakeyJ]

Not sure how I missed this one Neil, the animation is excellent, very even, but might be worth a slightly longer delay between frames IMO (not that I claim much experience here ) .   I really like the colour and smoothness of the R-RGB @ post 8, there's a lot of detail in here, despite not having the big features.     Not viewing this on the best display at the moment, but this looks a good job to my eye!

[neil phillips]

Not sure how I missed this one Neil, the animation is excellent, very even, but might be worth a slightly longer delay between frames IMO (not that I claim much experience here ) .   I really like the colour and smoothness of the R-RGB @ post 8, there's a lot of detail in here, despite not having the big features.     Not viewing this on the best display at the moment, but this looks a good job to my eye!

I really don't think my Orion is performing as it was to be honest Jake I am in touch with Orion about this, I noticed tonight after I setup, then had to bring it all back in again as it clouded over.

 That the mirror wasn't making its usual rattle that tells me it is not held too tight. so I will check this. I don't think the problem is this ?

 but its worth checking everything which I will be doing. Certainly haven't had a red this year that looks anything like this, My greens are not great and blues decidedly blurry. It just doesn't seem to be performing in its usual manner. I know seeing plays a part. But I used to be able to produce good images even under below par seeing. let alone good. This red is a good example of what I was getting before I had the optics re coated.  under lower elevation and shot for only about 60 seconds  converted to JPG any tweaking I have done will produce a little noise. The level of detail and sharpness is just in another league. I always thought this was one of the best Newtonians I have ever seen image in this country at this size. But lately its just not so.

[SnakeyJ]

That's a stunning red channel. - Right up there with the big SCT's. Though seems to be a longer f/l.

It's so easy to doubt the gear, and always another adjustment to tweak. But just not sure we've had the seeing, even for the big SCT boys! Not a lot up on DP's site either.

I've still not had conditions right for a decent star test, though know I'm as good as I can get it without.

Hang in for the high pressure - hopefully for February :-)

[neil phillips]

That's a stunning red channel. - Right up there with the big SCT's. Though seems to be a longer f/l.

It's so easy to doubt the gear, and always another adjustment to tweak. But just not sure we've had the seeing, even for the big SCT boys! Not a lot up on DP's site either.

I've still not had conditions right for a decent star test, though know I'm as good as I can get it without.

Hang in for the high pressure - hopefully for February :-)

Yes it was likely 10 Meters.

I was routinely shooting at these Focal lengths in the past, infact I couldn't understand why others could not.

Now however I may be able to understand why. I do think these set of optics were likely some of the sharpest optics ever to come out of a UK factory.

My results over the years were pretty consistent. Only the very worst seeing would stop me getting good images.

Now I can barely do it under reasonably good seeing.

The 29th and 30 th had reasonable seeing. I should have had super sharp images. Even at  10 Meters. what I had was average reds, at 3 mins  capture times pretty rubbish greens. and horrible blues.

Years gone by that would not have been the case. I think some forget how consistent and above average my images were over long periods of time. Even I am now starting to forget.

Yes the scope can still take images. Is it the same telescope. My experience of working with it for 8 years. Tells me it is not.

Of course I want you to be right. I want to be wrong. But the 29th and 30th didn't really do enough to show, This telescope is performing as it was.

Its interesting you say that red is right up there with the Big SCTs, because the scope could do that often Jake.  But not anymore it seems.

Here is a article about removing multi coatings by Oldham optical

 your mirror is 0.1λ "as measured at the focus" then it only takes an error of 25nM on the surface to take it out of tolerance. 25nM is a lot smaller than either the thickness of the aluminium (85nM), or of the silica overcoat (190nM). If for instance there is some contamination that prevents the silica and aluminium being removed very evenly, then some parts of the mirror will become clear of aluminium well before the rest and the acid solution will continue and remove part of the mirror itself.

Remember that plate glass, or any low expansion glass, or virtually any other sort of glass used for mirrors can be described as "silica with various impurities added", and you can see that if the acid solution can remove a pure silica overcoat, it can also attack the surface of your mirror. 

So the figure of the mirror can be affected before all aluminium is finally removed. We do wash off the acid as soon as we can see the aluminium has been dissolved and we seem to get away without needing to re-figure most of the time, but it can't be guaranteed. If there are extra layers, and more exotic materials are employed which are more difficult to remove, then its increasing the chance that re-figuring the mirror will be necessary after the coating has been removed.

Perhaps here is one reason large observatories prefer bare aluminium? If the acid does not have 190nM of Silica to eat through first to get to the aluminium, the aluminium layer itself will be more evenly removed. This would minimise any effects to the underlying mirror surface

[SnakeyJ]

Yes it was likely 10 Meters.

I was routinely shooting at these Focal lengths in the past, infact I couldn't understand why others could not.

Now however I may be able to understand why. I do think these set of optics were likely some of the sharpest optics ever to come out of a UK factory.

My results over the years were pretty consistent. Only the very worst seeing would stop me getting good images.

Now I can barely do it under reasonably good seeing.

The 29th and 30 th had reasonable seeing. I should have had super sharp images. Even at 10 Meters. what I had was average reds, at 3 mins capture times pretty rubbish greens. and horrible blues.

Years gone by that would not have been the case. I think some forget how consistent and above average my images were over long periods of time. Even I am now starting to forget.

Yes the scope can still take images. Is it the same telescope. My experience of working with it for 8 years. Tells me it is not.

Of course I want you to be right. I want to be wrong. But the 29th and 30th didn't really do enough to show, This telescope is performing as it was.

Its interesting you say that red is right up there with the Big SCTs, because the scope could do that often Jake. But not anymore it seems.

Here is a article about removing multi coatings by Oldham optical

your mirror is 0.1λ "as measured at the focus" then it only takes an error of 25nM on the surface to take it out of tolerance. 25nM is a lot smaller than either the thickness of the aluminium (85nM), or of the silica overcoat (190nM). If for instance there is some contamination that prevents the silica and aluminium being removed very evenly, then some parts of the mirror will become clear of aluminium well before the rest and the acid solution will continue and remove part of the mirror itself.

Remember that plate glass, or any low expansion glass, or virtually any other sort of glass used for mirrors can be described as "silica with various impurities added", and you can see that if the acid solution can remove a pure silica overcoat, it can also attack the surface of your mirror.

So the figure of the mirror can be affected before all aluminium is finally removed. We do wash off the acid as soon as we can see the aluminium has been dissolved and we seem to get away without needing to re-figure most of the time, but it can't be guaranteed. If there are extra layers, and more exotic materials are employed which are more difficult to remove, then its increasing the chance that re-figuring the mirror will be necessary after the coating has been removed.

Perhaps here is one reason large observatories prefer bare aluminium? If the acid does not have 190nM of Silica to eat through first to get to the aluminium, the aluminium layer itself will be more evenly removed. This would minimise any effects to the underlying mirror surface

Neil, that's quite a scary thought. You've got a lot of time and experience in on this scope and although I hope it's ok, I suspect you will be proved right. That said, I still think nobody's had good to excellent seeing from UK so far this season and 29/30th Dec is the high point so far.

Out of interest, what do OO charge for Zygo/interferometer test - doesn't seem to be on their website.

[neil phillips]

Neil, that's quite a scary thought. You've got a lot of time and experience in on this scope and although I hope it's ok, I suspect you will be proved right. That said, I still think nobody's had good to excellent seeing from UK so far this season and 29/30th Dec is the high point so far.

Out of interest, what do OO charge for Zygo/interferometer test - doesn't seem to be on their website.

I am not sure what they charge to be honest Jake. Just email or give them a bell. are you trying to get yours tested ?

It is a weird situation, last year the 300p did better than the Orion. this year the Orion has been doing better. which does seem to suggest its all seeing related. But I think its more complicated than that. The 300 p seems to need a lot of time to cool, even all night doesn't appear to be enough, under these temps, so that would explain that one. It still doesn't explain my consistently poor blues, over many imaging sessions. Wish me luck. I am glad there are no ropes in the house  

[SnakeyJ]

I am not sure what they charge to be honest Jake. Just email or give them a bell. are you trying to get yours tested ?

It is a weird situation, last year the 300p did better than the Orion. this year the Orion has been doing better. which does seem to suggest its all seeing related. But I think its more complicated than that. The 300 p seems to need a lot of time to cool, even all night doesn't appear to be enough, under these temps, so that would explain that one. It still doesn't explain my consistently poor blues, over many imaging sessions. Wish me luck. I am glad there are no ropes in the house

If I could afford the zygo, I would probably save the money towards something else - I'm just happy its going in the right direction at the mo [emoji3]

Best blues of the year were definitely on the 29th Dec for me.

Just off out for another try with the grs transit....