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gajjer

Dr Matt Taylor's shirt

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So Dr Matt Taylor's shirt offended some people.

Are we really that delicate? Can't we allow people to show some personality even if we don't agree/approve of it?

Leave the bloke alone.

cheers

gaj

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There is still a widespread perception among many young people that science is for boys.  This is especially true in the areas of engineering, physics and mathematics - three of the key skill sets utilised in space exploration.

I think many of the complaints weren't people necessarily being offended, although I can understand how some people might be offended by it.  (If I wore a shirt like to that to work I would be sent home.)  It was more that it sends out completely the wrong message to young people and, to be honest, looks pretty unprofessional.

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Immaterial of your attitude to it, he was pretty dumb to wear it for what was going on and for a TV interview.

I wonder if no-one at the Rosette misson didn't suggest a change prior to getting in front of the cameras. Yes he can wear it but there is likely a better situation for wearing it. Miami beach comes to mind.

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Perhaps this would have been a better shirt for the occasion.

_78990978_untitled.jpg

Some of the reaction was - as ever - out of proportion, but I do think an apology was appropriate.

Edited by Knight of Clear Skies

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Science doesn't have to be entirely serious. For goodness sake, are we getting irritated by what shirt a guy wears. So it had a few girls on it,

are we so straight laced it has to be frowned on. I have more objections to the amount of Tattooing that prevails these days.

Women too have them scrawled all over their person. I prefer the shirt, at least that can be removed.

By the way, Matt Taylor did apologise for having the temerity to wear it, he didn't have to.

Ron.

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Matt Taylor is a hero. It's such a shame for something like a choice of shirt to overshadow him and his team's achievements. Given that he's apologised, I really hope the amazing science can get all the limelight again.

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There is still a widespread perception among many young people that science is for boys.  This is especially true in the areas of engineering, physics and mathematics - three of the key skill sets utilised in space exploration.

I think many of the complaints weren't people necessarily being offended, although I can understand how some people might be offended by it.  (If I wore a shirt like to that to work I would be sent home.)  It was more that it sends out completely the wrong message to young people and, to be honest, looks pretty unprofessional.

Spot on Michael!  

I don't think its only his issue  - while you do wonder why on earth he thought it could be appropriate and he should have thought about its impact, his management and the ESA press professionals really should have picked up on it!

Helen

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Matt Taylor is a hero. It's such a shame for something like a choice of shirt to overshadow him and his team's achievements. Given that he's apologised, I really hope the amazing science can get all the limelight again.

A hero? 

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Given the likely response (inevitable "Twitterstorm"!) a daft choice of attire. :o

Re. sexism, I do wish people would read the experiences of women *doing*

science e.g. http://cerncourier.com/cws/article/cern/45134 (and many more refs!)

For better or worse, closer to the reality, than some journalist's "beliefs"... 

I think re. whether his colleagues should have picked it up. Maybe so! But in

(international) science environments, there is a tendency to avoid "politics" and

criticism of colleagues. Unlike most jobs, scientists often have to grin and bear 

the culture, attitudes and *foibles* of others... Have little time or energy left. ;)

By such methods scientists transcended the horrors of World War Two, often

in a mere few years. Compared to the century's old (increasing?) sectarianism

within the UK, I still look on science as a example of how things might be done. :)

Edited by Macavity
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A hero? 

Yes, I consider him and all the Rosetta team heroes, just as other people consider footballers and pop stars heroes. Is that so odd?

That wasn't a very clever shirt to wear but he has apologised for it. I think that should be sufficient. A minor mistake shouldn't nullify the amazing work he's done.

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So Dr Matt Taylor's shirt offended some people.

Are we really that delicate? Can't we allow people to show some personality even if we don't agree/approve of it?

Leave the bloke alone.

cheers

gaj

Well said!

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Yes, I consider him and all the Rosetta team heroes, just as other people consider footballers and pop stars heroes. Is that so odd?

That wasn't a very clever shirt to wear but he has apologised for it. I think that should be sufficient. A minor mistake shouldn't nullify the amazing work he's done.

personally I consider calling any of the people you list a hero odd. To me, firemen,soldiers, police, or anyone who risks life and limb for the safety of others are heros. I think I do my job very well as do the folks involved with this mission but to call me a hero for doing my job well would be a bridge too far.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that words like hero, legend etc are used all too freely these days 

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I reckon Matt Taylor is sort of the "Dave Lister" of the team. Which ones are Rimmer and the Cat ?  :smiley: 

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Science doesn't have to be entirely serious. For goodness sake, are we getting irritated by what shirt a guy wears. So it had a few girls on it,

are we so straight laced it has to be frowned on. I have more objections to the amount of Tattooing that prevails these days.

Women too have them scrawled all over their person. I prefer the shirt, at least that can be removed.

By the way, Matt Taylor did apologise for having the temerity to wear it, he didn't have to.

Ron.

Were you intending to be satirical or was it unintentional?

The poor bloke's plastered in tattoos too!

I'm not sure you'd have liked it any better if he had removed his shirt! :D

I don't know about a hero, but he's clearly a brilliant bloke.

Brilliance often comes with a touch or two of eccentricity.

He obviously didn't intend to offend as is clear from his emotional apology.

However, a contrite apology is never a bad thing.

Back to the science.

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No apology was necessary or required.

If you are that offended by a peice of clothing then its much more likely that you that needs to think about things.

Such a shirt wont stop girls or women from going into science if thats what they desire to do, at most if they think of it at all they'll probably think 'what an ugly shirt' and move on, like everyone really should do.

Or do we really want to end up with a stasi like fashion police killing anything that isnt plain uniform grey so it cant offend anyone??  Iran anyone?

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Or do we really want to end up with a stasi like fashion police killing anything that isnt plain uniform grey so it cant offend anyone??  Iran anyone?

Likening anyone who doesn't see eye-to-eye with you on this to the Stasi is really not helpful. There is a middle ground - try not to take offence where none is intended and make some effort not to be offensive yourself. To some it's a harmless bit of self expression, to others comes across as crass and a bit creepy. The guy apologised though, best to leave it at that I think.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that words like hero, legend etc are used all too freely these days 

It's a curious use of language but a very common one, if Hercules was still around no doubt he'd complain. In his day you had to wrestle a lion or two before even being nominated, whereas now it's an accolade bestowed on anyone who can sweep out a stable.

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Does a shirt really influence people away from science? ................ I think not

Did Dr Matt Taylor Offend me with his shirt? ................................To be honest I didn't notice it till all the fuss was raised

Did he have to apologise for wearing a shirt? .... Maybe to the fashion police, but  to the rest of us, No!!, we cannot as a society demand censorship of this kind!!

We are risking becoming a vile beige society without freedom of expression, or attitude, maybe if Dr Matt had been censored all his life he may never have dared, and that would be a great loss to science.

We should all go out and buy that shirt and show support for the man not vilify him!!

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Likening anyone who doesn't see eye-to-eye with you on this to the Stasi is really not helpful. There is a middle ground - try not to take offence where none is intended and make some effort not to be offensive yourself. To some it's a harmless bit of self expression, to others comes across as crass and a bit creepy. The guy apologised though, best to leave it at that I think.

I didnt liken anyone to them & I'd appreciate it if you either read my post or refrained from putting words in my mouth that I've never uttered thanks, much offence taken!

I asked if we as a society would like to end up like that?  Its a reasonable question given the media kerfuffle over this & other previous incidents of peoples clothings supposedly 'offending' whole swathes of humanity.

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Is it cloudy again? ;-)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I think it is quite likely that Matt Taylor was instructed to apologise by the senior management of ESA, and was thereby obliged to do so.

Put aside (for a moment) any arguments about fashion and the right to wear whatever we like and choose, and look at this from ESA's perspective.  This mission is not over, but already it has been a huge success.  It has caught the public's imagination and has, quite rightly, received a large amount of coverage on prime time TV and radio.  This is everything and more that ESA could have wished for.  However, it was also an expensive project, and the seniors at ESA have to capitalise on this success.  Put bluntly, they have to turn this wave of excitement into funding for future missions, and they have to do it quickly.

I'm sure Matt Taylor is a fine scientist and has earned his place on the team at ESA, but if you have seen any of his performances in the TV interviews he did, then it is fairly obvious that he is quite an excitable and emotional chap.  Nothing wrong with that of course, but this business of the shirt hasn't made it any easier for ESA to maintain the focus on the positive aspects of the mission, the ones they need to use and maximise if they are to secure the best possible financial advantage for the future of the space agency.  

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I seen the interview he did when he wore the shirt and I can honestly tell you I didn't notice the detail in the shirt, I thought it was a Hawaiian shirt.

I think he did make a wrong choice and needed to apologise. He has, he should now be allowed to get on with his job.

I think some people in the media and public like to be offended. They jump on every opportunity to proclaim they are hurt by someone's actions/statements/clothing.

Mark

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Whilst the strict definition of hero refers more to physical courage and bravery, I think it can be extended to people who show moral courage and who are prepared to risk reputation and public failure to achieve a goal.

Two of my heroes are Joe Kittinger, no questions there I hope, and Gene Kranz.

Kranz showed, in my eyes, strong moral courage and leadership, and although his book is called 'Failure is not an option', public failure was clearly a very real possibility. Having the strength to stay calm under those stresses, and to lead others through them is pretty heroic in my eyes.

Yes, it is cloudy here and I am feeling pretty rough, but I tend to fall on the side of wanting people to be allowed to show some character and individuality, and for us all to be humble enough not to take offence.

Now, did 'we' just land a probe on a comet 500 million miles away, travelling at 30,000 miles an hour, or did someone let their enthusiasm get away with them and chose the wrong tee shirt.

Which is the more significant?

Stu

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Now, did 'we' just land a probe on a comet 500 million miles away, travelling at 30,000 miles an hour, or did someone let their enthusiasm get away with them and chose the wrong tee shirt.

Which is the more significant?

Ah, the fickle nature of the human species....  :rolleyes:

It reminds me of that wonderful final scene in "The Truman Show" when the two guys are watching tv, and Guy1 says to Guy2:

"What else is on?"

:grin:

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