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wuthton

Do you ever wonder if someone is looking back?

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I tried, honestly, not to do this. But I failed....So turn up the sound on your computers and get ready for a very cool "conspiracy theory!"

I'll go away now.....

Klaatu barada nikto,

Dave

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Why does a universe require any observer ?

 It can/could exist without any intelligence to witness that it is there.

That's another version of Berkeley's question; namely, if a tree falls in a forest does it actually fall if no one is around to hear it?

Does the universe exist if there is nobody around to be aware of it? If humans disappeared tomorrow would the Universe also disappear?

Damned if I know :grin:

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Is my car really in the garage when I am indoors? :grin:

I cannot witness that it is, so it may not be there.

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No one would have believed, in the last years of the 19th century, that human affairs were being watched from the timeless worlds of space. No one could have dreamed that we were being scrutinized as someone with a microscope studies creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water. Few men even considered the possibility of life on other planets. And yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Earth with envious eyes, and slowly, and surely, they drew their plans against us…”

H. G. Wells on The War of the Worlds

Jim  :eek: 

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If you have the most rudimentary grasp of distance and physics then you know that the chance of contact with an alien civilisation is essentially zero.

BUT do you look to the night sky and wonder if someone is looking back? 

I KNOW they are looking back as I was once abducted 

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Is my car really in the garage when I am indoors? :grin:

I cannot witness that it is, so it may not be there.

Yeah, sorry about that, I'll bring it back before morning................. :evil:

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The Dalai Lama said ......

There are only two possible answers to this question

Yes, there are other life forms 'out there'.

Or.

There are no other life forms 'out there' - we are alone in the universe.

Only one answer is correct but both are equally terrifying.

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The Dalai Lama said ......

There are only two possible answers to this question

Yes, there are other life forms 'out there'.

Or.

There are no other life forms 'out there' - we are alone in the universe.

Only one answer is correct but both are equally terrifying.

Great point 

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The Dalai Lama said ......

There are only two possible answers to this question

Yes, there are other life forms 'out there'.

Or.

There are no other life forms 'out there' - we are alone in the universe.

Only one answer is correct but both are equally terrifying.

Er... I think that was Arthur C Clarke in fairness.

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Is my car really in the garage when I am indoors? :grin:

I cannot witness that it is, so it may not be there.

In fact it is in a state of being in your garage and not being in your garage at the same time.

When you open the garage door it collapses into one or other of the states.... hopefully the first one!

......well, that is what the quantum theorist would have you believe  :grin:

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Why does a universe require any observer ?

 It can/could exist without any intelligence to witness that it is there.

Some time back the "Anthropic Principle" was all the rage.

The "weak" Anthropic Principle suggests that we observe a universe that is hospitable to life because if it wasn't we wouldn't be here to observe it!! A statement of the obvious in my mind.

Such a universe could exist without us.

The "Strong" Anthropic Principle requires that our existence is a absolute requirement for the universe to exist. 

Such a universe couldn't exist without us.

I've struggled to understand SAP. What are they on about?.

Personally I believe we need the universe more than it needs us! :) 

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I love looking at objects, finding out how far they were and what was happening on earth when the light left that object. Blows my mind everytime.

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I'm sure there's life elsewhere, but not intelligent life.  I find it highly unlikely there are other civilisations also looking at their skies and wondering the same things.  The chances are too small, and the barriers needed to be overcome too steep.  In all probability, although I wish otherwise, I think we're probably alone as the only advanced civilisation.

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I'm sure there's life elsewhere, but not intelligent life.  I find it highly unlikely there are other civilisations also looking at their skies and wondering the same things.  The chances are too small, and the barriers needed to be overcome too steep.  In all probability, although I wish otherwise, I think we're probably alone as the only advanced civilisation.

I see it the other way - there are more stars in our own galaxy than grains of sand on the earth and more galaxies in the known universe than grains of sand on the earth.  Inconceivable that there ISN'T life elsewhere - by definition some more advanced than us.

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I'm sure there's life elsewhere, but not intelligent life.  I find it highly unlikely there are other civilisations also looking at their skies and wondering the same things.  The chances are too small, and the barriers needed to be overcome too steep.  In all probability, although I wish otherwise, I think we're probably alone as the only advanced civilisation.

Personally, I won't be shifted from my fence on this one. While the Rare Earth Hypothesis is well worth considering there is just so much we don't know about what other environments might be suitable for simple and complex life. Think of it this way perhaps - each of us is the product of an unbroken chain of unlikely events. If one of your distant ancestors coughed at the critical moment you would not exist. It's a similar story when we look at the Earth, we can list all the cosmic coincidences that have made it a suitable abode for us. What we don't know is how many other paths might result in a rich and robust ecology.

We are heavily constrained in our thinking by our sample size of one.

Edited by Knight of Clear Skies
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If you consider the large number of species on earth that can look out at the night sky then I feel certain that there are eyes looking back.

Alan

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If you consider the large number of species on earth that can look out at the night sky then I feel certain that there are eyes looking back.

Alan

It all hinges on whether the evolutionary leap of life on Earth from single cellular to multi-cellular organisms was a complete fluke or commonplace in the Universe. As we currently can't explain how it happened (and possibly never will) we cannot answer the question of how likely we are to be alone? Darwinism pretty much covers the large number of species evolving from that moment on but not before.

I like to think there is someone looking back but I doubt I'll ever know for sure.

Edited by wuthton

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I see it the other way - there are more stars in our own galaxy than grains of sand on the earth and more galaxies in the known universe than grains of sand on the earth.  Inconceivable that there ISN'T life elsewhere - by definition some more advanced than us.

I think there were just too many accidental co-incidents that led to our development.  To imagine the same level of sheer luck happening wholesale across the universe is stretching it a bit in my mind.  I'm with Ward on this one.  I HOPE I'm wrong...  but the logical nature in me just keeps adding up the odds of all the accidental events that made us possible...  and some of the chances are, forgive the pun, astronomical.

I'd LOVE to be convinced otherwise though.

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Well I do know that the Egg came BEFORE the Chicken?

T h e   E g g   w a s  g e n e t i c a l l y     c l o n e d   f r o m   a   R a t!

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This is a theory you can't prove. I've heard rumors of a time without me in it... I wish I could've been there to see it.

Why does a universe require any observer ?

It can/could exist without any intelligence to witness that it is there.

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I agree that the events that produced humans maybe very rare but life capable of looking up existed many times long before subsequent global disasters/environmental changes that led to us.

Alan

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I think there were just too many accidental co-incidents that led to our development.  To imagine the same level of sheer luck happening wholesale across the universe is stretching it a bit in my mind.  I'm with Ward on this one.  I HOPE I'm wrong...  but the logical nature in me just keeps adding up the odds of all the accidental events that made us possible...  and some of the chances are, forgive the pun, astronomical.

I'd LOVE to be convinced otherwise though.

I don't think anything that has led us to where we are now is in any way accidental, lucky or coincidental.  Not if you look at us (as a race or a planet) from the outside, from afar.  We are where we are because certain things happened in a certain order under certain conditions.  To think that this chain of events happening anywhere else is unlikely would be to think that this planet or solar system or galaxy is special.  A special set of materials in a special environment operating under special conditions.

Well, that is possible.  I have to say that because I do not know it to be false, but I think it much more likely that it is being repeated over and over again throughout the universe.  We keep agreeing with each other about how mind-numbingly vast the universe is, and then we turn round and say that a small science experiment that takes place here can't possibly happen anywhere else.  The odds are indeed astronomical, but that is because the playground is equally so.      

 If we believe it is unlikely then I think we are in danger of denying ourselves the full reach and scope of our imaginations.  :smiley:

We are heavily constrained in our thinking by our sample size of one.

Succinct.  I must learn how to be succinct! :p

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