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A Night of Horror at the Observatory


Alveprinsen

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As a nascent imager, I share your pain.

I've found that checklists are essential and having a place for everything and everything it it's place help prevent a lot imaging woes.  (Do as I say, not as I do!)

As they say "The Road to Hell is Paved With Good Intentions"  :grin:

Dave

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As a nascent imager, I share your pain.

I've found that checklists are essential and having a place for everything and everything it it's place help prevent a lot imaging woes.  (Do as I say, not as I do!)

Gonna buy myself a big plastic box tomorrow and store all my little bits and bobs in at my astro-shed. :)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Finally... The weather forecast gave me 9 hours of clear skies.

I get off work early to set up my stuff... The sky is clear, not a singel cloud... no moon...

Then the fun starts:

1. My previous 24 star alignment? Now useless.

2. Go-to takes me to a place seemingly near ngc7023, but in actuality not.

3. I attemt to re-align my scope, deleting previous align points. To no avail, because EQMOD loads the old ones on un-park.

4. I try AstroTortilla... which is no help at all. sure, it "solves".. But solves what exactly? Sure as h... didnt solve ngc7023... And how would it even know which object I am looking for? Its not like there's a list of object on which to center...

5. Finally AstroTortilla does something... solves, and slews... and centers on a star nowhere close to NGC7023.

6. I delete everything, and slew to jupiter. The scope is not even close, and I need to scan the sky. Even the 200mm guiding scope is unable to find it, much less the 1000mm imaging scope.

7. Finally I find Jupiter. I now have my first align point. From there I move to all the obvious ones, Deneb etc. etc. Before moving on to the stars in the big and small dipper.

8. Now my alignment is accurate enough for me to actually FIND and center the camera on those two stars on each side of the area in which NGC7023 is located.

9. Go-to NGC7023 now works, and I have it centered... - more fun.

10. PHD guiding has forgotten that I upped the step size from 750 to 3300... and spendt 15 minutes figuring out the star wasnt moving. So I upped it to 2200... It spends another 15 minutes, and notifies me that the star is still not moving enough.

11. I up it to 3300, and after 20 minutes, it finally tracks.

12. Now the wind picks up. Nothing dramatically mind you, just enough to botch even the shortest exposures.

13. Ahh, time for the camera to act up... a series of disconnects and reconnects solves the issue though, wasting valuable time.

14. And now the clouds start rolling in....

15. I have now spent four hours, getting 0 exposures. 4 hours of clear skies, and no wind. When the setup is finally running, wind picks up and clouds roll in.

I left my scope imaging down at the observatory, and I expect to pick up 30 useless exposures at 06:00, at which time there's a good chance I will be an ex-astronomer.

At this time, I am wondering how difficult it will be to sell all my Rubbish.

I am thinking... new rims for my car.... Or perhaps a really expensive antique paper-weight... Both items will bring me joy way beyond what I am currently experiencing...........

Alveprinsen.

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Oh dear... Did you have all the various clocks set accurately? I thought you couldn't get AT working at all? It will solve and point to wherever you tell it to (via Stellarium, say). If there's a mismatch to what you expect it will most likely be time/place settings or intrinsic mount settings. The latter happens with my AVX if the onboard real time clock is wrong, for example. I also have to set quick align or last align. Reading through your post again I get the impression you mostly have computer system / connectivity problems rather than anything else.

Still, hope you get some decent images after all that!

Louise

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.... I thought you couldn't get AT working at all? It will solve and point to wherever you tell it to (via Stellarium, say)....

It just wont save the config settings. I need to cut & paste them every time I open AT.

So if I tell stellarium to slew to NGC7023... then open AT and let it do its thing after Stellarium has presumably slewed to its target, AT will know which target I am attempting to reach?

Oh, and I just got back from the observatory. Like I predicted.... 30x useless 600sec frames. All white. Even PHD guiding had given up, having lost the guide star through the clouds.

ASCOM had stopped tracking, complaining that the limits were reached (not even close).

PHDguiding had stopped working entirely.

WindowsFramework had given me a gazillion error messages.

Got to love this hobby...

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Mmm, not a happy bunny... It really sounds like something fundamental is completely wrong in your setup. It all 'should' work perfectly... Except for the sky conditions of course!

Can you describe your exact system:

What hardware set up do you have?

How are things connected up, cable wise?

When you turn everything on with the scope in the home position, what software do you open and what do you connect it to?

What do you do to slew to your target?

Surely we can get you up and running again soon....

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You might want to have a look at AstroArt 5. It performs most tasks in one application.

The plate solving is excellent, it solves in less than 5 seconds.

The guiding is excellent.

The autofocus is excellent.

The image capture routine is OK.

The star chart is all but useless but you can save target coordinates. I have a file for each target with a nearby star for focus, which has turned out to work really well when combined with the plate solving.

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It just wont save the config settings. I need to cut & paste them every time I open AT.

So if I tell stellarium to slew to NGC7023... then open AT and let it do its thing after Stellarium has presumably slewed to its target, AT will know which target I am attempting to reach?

Oh, and I just got back from the observatory. Like I predicted.... 30x useless 600sec frames. All white. Even PHD guiding had given up, having lost the guide star through the clouds.

ASCOM had stopped tracking, complaining that the limits were reached (not even close).

PHDguiding had stopped working entirely.

WindowsFramework had given me a gazillion error messages.

Got to love this hobby...

Hi

Sorry for your woes. Um I have all my software open and running together... So, with the AVX, I have Stellarium, Stellariumscope, PHD2, APT, Astrotortilla all running together - the beauty of Ascom. ( With my heq5 I have eqmod up and running before anything else. ) I have PHD2 open (in server mode) before I open APT, so setup for auto dithering.  You have to be certain there are no connectivity problems. If there are, you have to sort them out first and that can involve a system reset and starting again... So, yeah, if everything is running smoothly then can use Stellarium to select and slew to a target. Then use AT to sync and reslew to confirm the target is centered. You can see where AT thinks it is as it displays RA and DEC co-ordinates which you can compare to where you and Stellarium thinks the scope is pointing. Obviously PA needs to be checked first, if necessary. PHD2 calibration done, and left guiding for a few mins until it settles down. Guiding stopped and re-centre target with AT, and guiding on. All systems go! Well, if clouds stay away, of course... At this point Stellarium can be closed but I leave it running since my target time is so limited. So, provided everything is set up correctly then it's all very straightforward and quick to get to a target and guiding. Of course, things can go wrong and you just have to gain experience with troubleshooting. Oh, with the heq5 / Eqmod I have the latter set to 'dialog based' since once upon a time I had some problems with sync points. I've not double-checked to see whether this problem still exists but with AT I don't need the eqmod pointing model. As mentioned before, the system clock has to be correct. Likewise with lat/long cords across all software that depends on them.

Hope the above is helpful

Louise

Edit: ps I do have the impression that you have some sort of system problem with Win 8.1 and that's preventing AT from saving it's settings and maybe causing other problems. I don't yet have 8.1 so don't recognise or understand the symptoms you have. I'm sure someone else here can help with that.

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At this time, I am wondering how difficult it will be to sell all my Rubbish.

I am thinking... new rims for my car.... Or perhaps a really expensive antique paper-weight... Both items will bring me joy way beyond what I am currently experiencing...........

Alveprinsen.

Pack it all up and send it over here, I've got a couple of old paperweights to swop  :grin:

Dave

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I had my kit giving me all kinds of run-around. Now I have the mount on its own port which is never used for anything else. The guide and filter wheel come off the port in the Trius camera which is connected to a different root hub in the laptop. I don't use Stellarium as I've neve been able to get it to work with my mount, and clear nights are too few to waste. I use Cartes du Ciel instead.

Now I boot up the laptop (i5, win 7) without anything plugged in, only when it's gone through its boot rutine do I plug the mount in first (Already powered up), wait for the "bong", then plug in the camera, listen for two bongs. Just to make sure I open "Devices and Printers" to make sure everything is present and correct.

Next I open CdC, click on the Telescope tab, and connect. When EQMOD comes up I unpark and track.

Then open the SX filterwheel control and minimise ready for imaging.

Open AstroArt 5, connect the CCD, then manually align and I'm ready to image.

Yes, I know there are more streamlined ways of doing this but with imaging time such a precious resorce here I'm loth to use it faffing around when I have something that works.

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I see there's been quite a few replies.

Sorry for not responding. I have been out of the country for the past week unable to spend any time online.

The reason for the error messages and stuff on my computer is most likely due to PHD guiding losing its guide star due to clouds, and then generating error messages. Those error messages again probably resulted in the Windows Framework error messages. If clouds hadn't covered the guide star, it would have just kept tracking as if nothing ever happened.

Another possible issue though: My NEQ6 Pro carrying the Skywatcher Explorer 200PDS with the 1.2kg camera on top is not balanced correctly. That is, with the camera sticking out, it is impossible to balance it 100% in all positions. So if the angle is very steep, the mount is unable to move the telescope. I've actually had to physically help it by applying pressure to the telescope itself to get the servos going.

Other than that, I am really frustrated how the 200PDS does not tolerate even the slightest breeze before wiggling wildly about. If an average sized fly lands on it, its enough to move the whole thing about. Those tube-rings combined with that utterly flimsy aluminum dovetail bar is but a nightmare. If I look at it too harshly, I swear I can see it move...

Right now I am seriously considering selling the damn thing along with my 2700mm Maksutov and investing the combined cash into a decent non flimsy refractor.

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Hiya

Hmm... I've never seen Windows Framework error messages before. I just got a laptop with Win 8.1 and everything works fine - no problems with Astrotortilla and all the astro software runs ok. I reckon you must have some sort of system problem though obviously can't tell. I presume you did all the Windows Updates when you got your laptop?? Took me ages. I've avoided doing an update for my Prolific usb-serial device - apparently there's a risk of bricking it with the newest update... How could they do that? Grr!! 

I'd have thought the neq6 would carry the 200pds ok - I imagine it's not that much bigger/heavier than my 150pds which is comfortable on the heq5. In any case, you should still be able to balance it with the counterweight and horizontally and vertically with itself. Maybe lack of balance might make it more susceptible to a light breeze than it otherwise would be? I suppose it depends on how you define 'breeze'... Still, I can see the wish for a nice, small refractor. Any outside imaging I might do will be with my ST-80, at least for the time being.

Louise

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So if the angle is very steep, the mount is unable to move the telescope. I've actually had to physically help it by applying pressure to the telescope itself to get the servos going.

This is very likely to be the source of many of your problems. If a clutch slips (even a tiny bit) then your alignment model is ruined, pointing will be off and AT will throw a dicky fit because everything is in the wrong place.

I don't bother with mutli-star alignment models with plate solving, I just slew from home position to target and solve, the first slew is nowhere near but what's the problem?

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...I reckon you must have some sort of system problem though obviously can't tell. I presume you did all the Windows Updates when you got your laptop?? Took me ages. I've avoided doing an update for my Prolific usb-serial device - apparently there's a risk of bricking it with the newest update... How could they do that? Grr!! 

...I suppose it depends on how you define 'breeze'...

All updates in place. Dont know if it updated the USB serial device though. Although I DID install it following very precise instructions for Win 8.1 as linked by FLO website.

I define a breeze as everything from 0.1 to 2.6 m/s. :)

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All updates in place. Dont know if it updated the USB serial device though. Although I DID install it following very precise instructions for Win 8.1 as linked by FLO website.

I define a breeze as everything from 0.1 to 2.6 m/s. :)

Well that's less than 10km/hr so not very much at all really... Not that I've tried imaging outside myself yet :p Have you tried again since?

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This is very likely to be the source of many of your problems. If a clutch slips (even a tiny bit) then your alignment model is ruined, pointing will be off and AT will throw a dicky fit because everything is in the wrong place.

I don't bother with mutli-star alignment models with plate solving, I just slew from home position to target and solve, the first slew is nowhere near but what's the problem?

Bad balancing could very well be the problem. I've got it so well aligned now (like, 27 points...) or is it 38 now? ... hmm... - I havent wanted to touch anything. I will see after tonight if it has messed up again. If so, I will have to look at re-balancing the damn thing.

Anyhow, the sky is clear tonight, and I just got back from my observatory. I aimed my scope at NGC7023 and hit it spot on... no plate solving needed with that kind of alignment data. :p

Anyhow, as you are all aware the moon is closing in on "full", so I'm a bit limited with my imaging atm. I slapped on a 2" LP filter from Baader, set ISO down from 1600 to 800, and exposure time down from 600sec to 240 sec.

With those setting the image isn't burned out in any way, just a bit more white than I am used to...

If it doesn't cloud over, and if the computer and/or mount doesn't do anything crazy, I should have 7 hours 30 minutes solid exposures by tomorrow morning 06:00AM.

Weather forecast says its gonna be clear skies all night. Seems they're right this time. Although there could be fog.. that'd be my luck. Obsy is close to the river you see...

I was considering aiming it at the horse head nebula instead and doing a Rubbish-load of Hydrogen Alpha images, but... I need more data on NGC7023 for my annual winter solstice cards... and time is currently running out! :eek:

Besides, with my full color camera, the 7h 30 min exposures of Ha would boil down to an actual total of about two actual hours... a bit less actually. I thought I'd do this experiment first, then go for Ha imaging during half - full moon in the future.

I've done the Horsehead nebula in full moon before, but I suspect it is quite a bit brighter than NGC7023. Take M42 for instance... so bright I can see details in the live-view from the camera at ISO 12800...

Alveprinsen

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Well that's less than 10km/hr so not very much at all really... Not that I've tried imaging outside myself yet :p Have you tried again since?

Its running right now. And will continue to run for 7h 30 minutes. Unless interrupted by software / hardware failure... or my favorite - a combination of that and heavy fog....

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Bad balancing could very well be the problem. I've got it so well aligned now (like, 27 points...) or is it 38 now? ... hmm... - I havent wanted to touch anything. I will see after tonight if it has messed up again. If so, I will have to look at re-balancing the damn thing.

Alveprinsen

You don't need to maintain a multi-point alignment model when you're using plate solving. Just point and solve.

Personally I can do without all the anxiety over releasing a clutch.

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You don't need to maintain a multi-point alignment model when you're using plate solving. Just point and solve.

Personally I can do without all the anxiety over releasing a clutch.

+1 for that :) Seems better not to try and combine pointing models with AT - they can clash, I think.
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Good quality shielded cables, not too long - maybe gold plated contacts :)

Well, the contacts are the problem... Seems they get smaller in the cold, and loses connection if I so much as touch them.

In room temperature however, wiggling them does not disconnect them.

Earlier this evening when calibrating PHD guiding I touched the laptop... it moved slightly... and connection was thus broken and I had to start all over again. I heard that "disconnect / connect" sound in Windows two times...

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