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Lost when star hopping


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Thanks, I'll test the magnitude and see what happens. Although I think the smudge I saw was more like the little one above M31, although it would surely be impossible to see the little one without seeing M31.

I do wonder if I was too hasty buying the Dob. As I'm under apparently polluted skies, with no car to get away from them, I wonder if I should cut my losses and return the Dob, pay the extra to get the ED80, and go all-out imaging, as I know that light-polluted images can be processed with great results.

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I would give it some time, and get done experience under different conditions. We are just getting into darker skies now so you should have more luck, particular with things like M42.

Regarding objects like M33 and M101, be careful with your expectations here. These are large objects, and have a reasonably high magnitude (brightness), but that brightness is spread over a large area. It is like when you have a torch which can change the spread of its beam. When concentrated the light is bright, but on a wide beam the light is much more diffuse.

It's the same with these galaxies. The surface brightness (which is effectively the magnitude divided by the area) is very low, and they are easily swamped by light pollution. It doesn't matter what scope you throw at them, they need dark skies to see properly.

M31 is easily visible, but often disappointing under light polluted skies.

More satisfying objects to start may be things like the Double Cluster and Pleiades.

I am a purely visual observer, and it does take patience and practise to get results. Imaging is not an easy or cheap route out either!!

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Thanks, I'll test the magnitude and see what happens. Although I think the smudge I saw was more like the little one above M31, although it would surely be impossible to see the little one without seeing M31.

I do wonder if I was too hasty buying the Dob. As I'm under apparently polluted skies, with no car to get away from them, I wonder if I should cut my losses and return the Dob, pay the extra to get the ED80, and go all-out imaging, as I know that light-polluted images can be processed with great results.

It would be entirely possible to see M110(the little one) and not see M31 as they are a long way apart and M31 only shows itself close by when you can see it's full extent. For this you need good, dark skies.

FWIW I do all my observing from my garden and put most of my effort into seeing clusters and double stars which are not so dependent on sky quality.

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I did actually wonder if, along with still getting the ED80 for my HEQ5 for imaging, I could replace the 200P Dob with the Heritage 130P for visual. I know it's a smaller aperture, but with it being a smaller scope and flextube too I would expect it to be much more portable, and who knows, maybe the Heritage at a better site could be as good as or even better than the 200P Dob at what is apparently not do good a site. And apart from anything the 200P is a real challenge to carry up and down three flights of stairs (I feel like I'm carrying a huge minigun or something).

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Not really, it's a block of flats, so no communal lockable cupboard. When buying contents insurance I enquired about adding coverage for items kept in a locked plastic storage shed in the garden, but no company would cover that because the garden is communal, so I'm limited to keeping everything in my flat.

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So maybe I could put the Heritage on the HEQ5, although then it would be back to reduced portability, which would be fine for imaging (I would expect a few trips up and down the stairs), but not for visual. So I'm thinking a couple of stools, one for the heritage, and one to sit on, or maybe just one stool, because I tend to stand anyway.

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By any chance is there a program where one could  see stars with the effect of light polution?

I mean as mentioned by topicstarter looking at all the stars i sometimes loose myself betweeen stars expecially in the LP arreas.

And i thought that aid of pc might be helpfull. or are where other solutions ?

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By any chance is there a program where one could see stars with the effect of light polution?

I mean as mentioned by topicstarter looking at all the stars i sometimes loose myself betweeen stars expecially in the LP arreas.

And i thought that aid of pc might be helpfull. or are where other solutions ?

SkySafari, and I'm sure others as well, allow you to adjust the brightness of stars shown which helps with this. If you just reduce until you are seeing the same number of stars either naked eye or through your scope then that should make life easier to match things up

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Although it would seem all but impossible to take photos of the moon through the Heritage, as I couldn't see the flextube supporting the camera. Not an essential requirement of course, just thought it may have been a possible Dob side note, hence purchasing the t-ring adaptor with the 200p.

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Maybe the 130P on the EQ2 mount would be a better option for visual (I assume you don't/can't polar align it?), as I would probably buy the shroud for the flextube Heritage, which would make the Heritage the same price. But it would depend on how heavy the 130P was including the mount.

So do you not polar align it?

How heavy is utter including the mount?

And could it stand on the ground?

And would it need power (can't see why)?

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For visual use a simple fast to use altz tripod.

You have an eq already I would not bother with another bulky heavy affair.

It is a make your own shroud for the heritage but if thinking of 130 why not the pds can use for visual and imaging with easy altz mount or eq depending on use. Though through your journey you ruled that out I think.

130p heritage is 6.3 kilos for the entire set up. Very light to hand carry though a bit of pipe lagging over handle more comfortable.

Or keep your great 200p but for now get a pair of binoculars to learn your way around the sky and sit relaxed in a deck chair. Easy to carry out side and use and learn.

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Yeah the Heritage is certainly light, with nothing else coming close it seems. And it really does need to be an alt az mount for visual, because it's about convenience.

I was considering the 150PDS OTA and one point, using it for visual and imaging (which could be on an alt az mount for visual, and my HEQ5 for imaging), but then I'm guessing that the 150PDS on an alt az mount would still be pretty big and heavy. And lots of people talk about avoiding "compromise" scopes intended for both visual and imaging, which is why the plan became an alt az Dob for visual, and the ED80/HEQ5 for imaging.

But I've learned the hard way just how big and heavy the 200P is, and if I'm honest it needs to be a ground-floor scope. 130's and 150's I don't know about weight-wise. There doesn't seem to be a 130 or 150 flextube Dob though for some reason, so if it wasn't going to be the Heritage, then it would have to be an OTA with an alt az mount bought seperately.

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I think a lot of the compromise is about the mount, as all I read is mount mount and mount for imaging, and then not a slow scope and then not CA (very simplistically sumamrised) and for visual it's apperature bigger the more you see.

My ST80 and AZ3 is lighter than my Heritage 130p just. I guess if it was eyepeice loaded up and had my counter weight bar on it would be 6.5 kilos. But it is a lot lots smaller on apperature to the 130p. The AZ4 tripod is heavier with the steel legs (think there is a allu leg one but less sturdy).

There are sone great images shared on here that users have taken using the 130P-DS if you have not seen the thread.

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Yes, there are some great 130PDS images, which do compare with ED80 images I tend to find:

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/210593-imaging-with-the-130pds/page-9

And if I was planning on switching to the Heritage, then maybe I could instead go for the 130PDS OTA for both visual (on a 2nd hand alt az mount) and imaging (on HEQ5), and abandon the ED80.

There are also a fair few comparison threads for the 80ED and 130PDS, and it seems like they provide similar images, with the 130PDS involving more maintenance but providing the same image more quickly, and the ED80 being the opposite, but apparently with more post-processing being required.

So on the whole I suppose there is an argument for the 130PDS (or possibly the 150PDS, although that may be too big and heavy again) as a single scope. Although I do really like the ED80 for some reason, don't know why.

The other thing I thought was that had I gone with the ED80 and the Heritage, that I could easily do some visual with the Heritage while waiting for hour-long photos to be taken. But then if I went for only the 130PDS then I would save a small fortune by not buying the ED80, so I could justify buying the Heritage as well anyway.

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It does seem to me that aperture is not the way for me to go, because of the light pollution I have, and because I am more interested in galaxies and nebulas than star clusters (which are dimmer to due to larger surface areas), and because of the weight and size not working out with being on the 2nd floor. And as we know aperture isn't so important when imaging.

And seeing as it looks like the 200p will have to go back (otherwise I could keep kidding myself that it's carryable, and end up putting my back out), it would surely be a bad idea to spend a huge amount on the ED80 when the 130PDS seemingly gives similar results, and more quickly. Although it looks like a coma corrector would be required.

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