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wallis23

Something to Ponder.

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I don't know why i'm writing this really. I'm just assuming as we all enjoy looking at the heavens then we all wish to know all we can about it...

Some of this is quite old news by now so i bet you all know this by now anyway. but i'll write it anyway.

Cosmologists have a theory that there's either mulitple Universes, or there's a God, a Creator. And it's definiatly at least one or the other. They say it's definatily one or the other. But they also say if there are multiple Universes then that doesn't rule out a God, or a Creator.

They say this because the parameters, or 'settings' of certain things in our Universe, such as gravity, pressure, and a few other things (which i'm VERY annoyed at my self because i can't remember what they are), are so finely tuned to allow not only for our survival, but also for Planets, Starts, Galaxies, ect... that even if one of these things were as much as half a degree different then everything in our Universe wouldn't have been able to form. Not as wel know them anyway.

People have been talking about Parallel Universes for a while now but i think they have it wrong. Some people think that in a Parallel Universe, Bob, a very poor man in our Universe, is a very rich man in a Parallel Universe. I don't think this is remotely true. Bob doesn't exist in a Parallel Universe. None of us do. Parallel Universes are, i think, just other Universes with different parameters of Gravity, Pressure, and those other things i can't remember.

Don't get me wrong, i'm no cosmologist, and this is just my opinion, but i thought i'd share it with you.

Another thing, which i found extremly exciting, was how our own Universe (and indeed Parallel Universes) came to exist. This is only a Theory, and i can't remember who's it is to be honest, but it is now widely accepted among Cosmologists.

We now know that a fraction of a second after the big bang the Universe existed of only particles. From what i remember, even Atoms didn't exist yet. Just Quarks, Gluons and Leptons. Untill about a millionth of a second after the Big Bang, the Universe was a seething soup of primitive matter and radiation. The Quarks condensed in into particles like Protons and Neutrons. Then the Protons and Neutrons coalesce, forming atomic nueclei: Deuterium, helium-3, Helium-4, and other heavier species. Most protons remained unbound, solo, protons, and a lone proton is the core of Hydrogen.

All of that isn't really important for what i'm coming to, it just makes it a bit easier to understand (believe it or not.)

Anyway, in this theory, and this is the easiest way to describe it, imagine a big bubbling soup (I'll call this a Multi-verse). This soup is filled with sub-atomic particles even more primitive than the quarks, gluons and leptons i've just mentioned. And from what i remember science doesn't now what these particles are.

Anyway, these particles are bubbling away, smashing into each other, just as the quarks ect.. were in the very early Universe. Now, due to the imperfect nature of, well, Nature, something went wrong. The best way to describe it is imagine the soup gets too hot and starts to bubble over the pan. This is what happened in the Multi-verse, and this is where the quarks, gluons and leptons came from that formed our Universe. The amount and concentration of particles that 'bubbled out' of the Multi-verse, it is thought, defined the parameters, or 'settings' of Gravity, Pressure, and again, those other things i've forgotten

This theory also states that ours is not the only 'bubble' to come from the Multi-verse. However, most would not survive as the matter and anti-matter particles would wipe each other out. Our own Universe is only here because there were more matter particles than anti-mater particles. In some of the other 'bubble' Universes, there were an equal amount of matter and anti-matter particles (the perfect 'bubble') and in other there were more anti-matter particles than matter particles, creating a Universe made entirely of anti-matter. And in other 'bubble' Universes still, when matter won the battle over anti-matter, the parameters or gravity, ect... were vastly different to that of ours.

Well, that was longer than i expected it to be. But what was the point of that? Well, nothing really. It just interests me and i thought i'd share it with you like minded folk. I just think it's amazing that in Aristotle's times people thought the earth was the centre of this universe, which consisted of just the Earth, the Moon, the 5 Planets they could see with the naked eye, and the Stars, whatever they thought they were. Then we found out that the stars we see are a tiny collection of the stars in our Galaxy, and there are around 100 billion other galaxies, each containing around 100 billion stars. Now we think there are other Universes. It really does make you realise how insignificant the earth really is in the grand scheme of things.

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given all of the above, I think I'm gonna stop paying my council tax until someone comes up with some REAL answers.

:D

TJ

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I think the multiverse and parallel universes are two different theories. The multiverse stems from the 'settings' argument which makes sense to me, gravity, electromagnetic, electro weak etc forces are all at the right relative strengths to allow our existence and the likely hood of this being a 'right first time' occurance is slim.

The parallel universe theories come from quantum mechanics which says EVERYTHING has a probability and exists in some way. I must admit this is the part I find hard to grasp but that probably due to my imagination/ intelligence or lack thereof. :D

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I think the multiverse and parallel universes are two different theories. The multiverse stems from the 'settings' argument which makes sense to me, gravity, electromagnetic, electro weak etc forces are all at the right relative strengths to allow our existence and the likely hood of this being a 'right first time' occurance is slim.

The parallel universe theories come from quantum mechanics which says EVERYTHING has a probability and exists in some way. I must admit this is the part I find hard to grasp but that probably due to my imagination/ intelligence or lack thereof. :D

Gaz, thanks for your post. I'm very happy now you've reminded me of the other settings. :lol:

Yea, i heard about the quantum mechanics theory of parallel Universes too, and i used paralelle universes to explain 'other' universes. Maybe that was a mistake and i should have just said other Universes. LOL.

Does the quantum mechanics theory of Parallel Universes have something to do with time travel aswell?

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blimey this is heavy for a Saturday morning! It does make you think though, and shows how insignificant we really are in the wider scheme of things.

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Hi Shaun,

I can recommend a book for you to read;

The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions and the Quest for the Ultimate Theory. It's around £8 / £9 from Waterstones et al, or about £7 + postage from Amazon, despite the title it's not that heavy.

Cheers,

Ian

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I'm going to go and read a few of the books that I have upstairs now - so I'll have a headache in about half an hour (cheers for that :D ).

But there is a name for the "The universe is spot on for the stars and planets to exist" because if it wasn't we wouldn't be sitting here discussing it.

Very interesting post, and I will be reading and joining in if I can.

But can I just remind everyone that religion is off limits on SGL - the G word was mentioned earlier :lol:

Ant

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Yep that's the one - "now don't do it again" :D

Found it. (quoting directly from Page 86: The universe in a nutshell)

The anthropic principle

Roughly speaking , the anthropic principle says that we see the universe the way it is, at least in part, because we exist . It is a perspective that is diametrically opposed the the dream of a fully predictive, unified theory in which the laws of nature are complete and the world is the way that it is because it could not be otherwise.

/.../

For instance , the reason why the big bang occurred about 10 thousand million years ago is that the universe must be old enough so that some stars will have completed their evolution to procude the elemnts like oxygen and carbon, out of which we are made, and young enough so that some stars would still be providing energy to sustain life.

Ant

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For instance , the reason why the big bang occurred about 10 thousand million years ago is that the universe must be old enough so that some stars will have completed their evolution to procude the elemnts like oxygen and carbon, out of which we are made, and young enough so that some stars would still be providing energy to sustain life.

And there's me thinking that all time exists at once and we're just travelling through it :D

Ian

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Hi Shaun,

I can recommend a book for you to read;

The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions and the Quest for the Ultimate Theory. It's around £8 / £9 from Waterstones et al, or about £7 + postage from Amazon, despite the title it's not that heavy.

Cheers,

Ian

Thanks for that. I'll look it up now. I'd also like to recommend a book called Alpha and Omega - The Search For The Beginning And The End Of The Universe. It's a great book but has to be read twice to fully understand it. Well i did anyway. LOL.

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Hi Shaun,

I can recommend a book for you to read;

The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions and the Quest for the Ultimate Theory. It's around £8 / £9 from Waterstones et al, or about £7 + postage from Amazon, despite the title it's not that heavy.

Cheers,

Ian

Thats a great book, Greene is far better at explaining these things than Hawking IMHO. I've also got his 'Fabric of the Cosmos' book, its not quite as good as 'Elegant' but it's still a good read.

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Thats a great book, Greene is far better at explaining these things than Hawking IMHO. I've also got his 'Fabric of the Cosmos' book, its not quite as good as 'Elegant' but it's still a good read.

Yeah, I liked the "Greene Book" too. :D I welcome anyone who has the courage to say that some of these POPULAR (esp. with lay audiences) books are a tad hard going. It makes an ex-physicist feel a little less uncomfortable! Another LARGE tome, in this vein, in "The Road to Reality" by Roger Penrose. I remembered e.g. that he says something about the... "Anthropomorphic Principal". He seeks to start the "journey" from first (mathematical!) principles - Again I'm not sure he entirely (irony) suceeded with yours truly, but they make an "impressive" addition to your bookshelf... :lol:

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you know for a while i used to think that the idea of an all powerful creator making everything was a tad unbeleivable.

but the more i read about quarks, and bangs and cosmic chicken soup, the more i think to myself, well this is much more reasonable.

the universe just exploded out of nothing :shock:

i get more confused day by day.

i mean something must have started it all going, my head hurts. :D

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the universe just exploded out of nothing :shock:

i get more confused day by day.

i mean something must have started it all going, my head hurts. :D

Well, they now think the Big Bang, and thus our Universe, came from this 'Multi-verse.' The real question is; Where did the Multi-verse come from? That's what makes my head hurt. And the fact that if there is/ was a creator, where did s/he/ it come from?

Sometimes i wonder if we'll ever figure it out. Maybe we're no meant to...

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