The Sun's Orientation using different telescopes

[Mark at Beaufort]

There has been different threads discussing the Sun's orientation when using different scopes. I produced the attached chart in photoshop to help me. I just hope I got it correct - if there is an error please tell me - I have kept the original PSP file just in case.

If you want the precise orientation then you can use the free software 'Tilting Sun'. I know that Moderator Bizibilder uses this software when he produces his fine solar images in white light.

    Please see post 21 on page 2 which gives the final correct version which can be printed out.

[Knight of Clear Skies]

Very handy thanks, assuming it is correct. I get terribly confused with this kind of thing.

[YKSE]

Thanks Mark, very helpful info. It took me a while to figure out the orientations in my scopes.

[JamesF]

I think I'd probably have swapped "E" and "W" in the "normal" view.  That's not because yours is wrong -- it's perfectly correct if you're working relative to the Sun -- but personally I stick with orientations relative to the Earth, so for example the Sun's western limb (assuming north is "up" for a northern hemisphere view) is on the right.

Suddenly this all gets a bit confusing

James

[Floater]

My head is definitely frying now!

First, thanks very much, Mark, for making the effort to help. Great stuff. Thanks others, too, for joining in.

However, I'm struggling again. I can handle the Newt view and the refractor/diagonal orientation but the view I get through the Solarmax has the leading edge on the left. i.e. The image moves from right to left in my EP. So surely that must mean that the western limb is the one on the left of my view?

The only consolation for me here is that others are obviously at sixes and sevens, too!

I promise myself, though, I WILL nail it!

[Pig]

Does this imply that if you project the image when using a refractor the orientation is normalised ?

[Floater]

Shaun! Are you muddying the water!? :-)

[Stevp]

And what happens in the southern hemisphere

[Floater]

Let's make a deal: sort out the northern hemisphere first and I promise I'll take part in trying to sort ANY other hemisphere! Honest injun. I will.

[Stu]

That is very handy Mark. It is very confusing indeed so it's good have a reference.

I understand James' comment though, I normally refer to the western limb as on the right when viewed normally, but that may well be wrong!!

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[Floater]

Oh my! Confustication abounds!

I had my hopes pinned on you, Stu ...

[Pig]

The East & West are reversed for my set up, I didn't realize that all points could be reversed

[Knight of Clear Skies]

Just to really confuse matters, if you attach a camera you can rotate it in the holder... 

[Mark at Beaufort]

I have since studied the Tilting Sun software and from what I can work out the Sun rotates East to West. If that is the case then perhaps my original drawing could be wrong.

            I think this drawing is now incorrect

                         I believe this is now the correct orientation in different telescopes

OK a further update - I have been outside and viewed the Sun with both the PST and a small frac with a Herschel Wedge. The top sketch comes from Spaceweather.com so is the normal view. The PST is upside down (same as a Newt Reflector) and the bottom sketch is backwards (same as a normal refractor with diagonal)

Because the Sun rotates from East to West hence sunspots 2121 and 2123 will move to the right then I believe my first drawing was incorrect and the second one is the correct orientation in different scopes.

                Sketches that shows the position of sunspot 2123 and 2121 on the Sun using different scopes

[Stu]

I reckon you've cracked it there Mark. I always struggle with relating the PST view to the Herschel wedge so this is very useful, thanks!

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[Steve Ward]

If in doubt just go to Raben to see what's where Sunspot-wise or the SDO Data site for Ha detail positions ... 

I always present my images oriented North up and East on the left as per these standards , but have the camera set so as to show the approximate tilt as seen from Earth as per "Tilting Sun". ( The SDO satellite data is always N-S vertical due to the satellites imaging position.)  

The 1000D is set so that drift is either vertical or horizontal across the sensor , automatically showing the correct tilt relative to my location via the Equatorial mount , the SPC900 data comes out North-South flipped but E-W 'correct' , I just flip the final image in Gimp before using the close-ups in the final "iMerged" montage.

Raben .... http://www.raben.com/maps     ...... NASA/SDO Data ... http://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/data/

[Davey-T]

           

Dave

[YKSE]

Inspired by Mark's picture, I made this schematic drawings to illustrate the how the sun features rotate in different scopes. The numbers are supposed to be sun features:

[Mark at Beaufort]

If in doubt just go to Raben to see what's where Sunspot-wise or the SDO Data site for Ha detail positions ... 

Thanks Steve you would have save me looking this afternoon but perhaps its good to know I got there in the end. The Raben website covered what I required so thanks for that.

[Floater]

Yessss!

That's it, YKSE. Precisely how it works for me in the Solarmax. West on the left and going round anti-clockwise.

As I wrote earlier, the 'tip' I was given (by someone with more experience) about the leading edge always being the west limb was one of those things that just made sense once it had been pointed out. And I was hanging on to that.

Your diagrams are the business. Definitive, I believe.

Now, I reckon there are some mischievous rascals in the Lounge, who got involved earlier with spurious comments, who should just do the proper thing here and give respect.

Come on now, you know who you are ...

Personally, I bow to you, YKSE. Well played!

p.s. I shall make a point of referring to west and east, etc., as per the map - and not my eyepiece. After all, I live in the northeast of the UK (and of Scotland), not at 1 o'clock ...

[Mark at Beaufort]

Decided to produce a better version so that it could be printed. This copy has the degrees defined so that when reporting a prominence you can give a better location for others to view. If you go to the 'Tilting Sun' software you will notice that the angles change over time so to get an exact position use this software. Today 26/07/14 the Sun's central line is marked at approx 100 to 280 degrees not 90 to 270.

I acknowledge the Tilting Sun version 3 software in producing this diagram

[Mark at Beaufort]

I just used this diagram to log the position of the large looping prom which I estimate at 250 degrees on the south/west side of the Sun which could be coming from Sunspot 2119??

[Stu]

That's really excellent Mark, extremely useful. Thanks very much!!

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[Joves]

Nice work Mark.

A little confusing for this Antipodean, as I think your very first diagram was the accurate one for us southerners?!

[Floater]

Wonderful, Mark. Good on you for taking the trouble to get this absolutely nailed down once and for all.

And Joves, I do understand the challenges posed by Norf and Souf on planet Earth. But I'm so relieved to have got it sorted out for myself - 'cos my head WAS burning!

All that said, isn't it great that we can all enjoy the spectacle that is our star? Whether it's up down or round about.

I'm off back out again now ...