North America nebula: what should I see?

[JulianFR]

The clouds finally cleared in the early hours and I had pretty good views of Cygnus and the Milky Way through my 300 Dob from a not totally dark site. 

I was hoping to locate the North America nebula using my 34 and 24mm EPs but I wasn't sure what to look for (not the pictures in the mags of course!) and probably gave up too quickly in frustration.

Can anyone tell me. What I should expect to see (if anything) through a low power EP ... A grey smudge of some kind, but anything more... Any structure?

Thanks in advance.

[RikM]

Probably not a lot with a 300P, the focal length is too long to show the whole thing so you will be looking through it. If you get in the right place, you should be able to trace the contrast differences down the wall region but it doesn't really have any sharp edges so just subtle shading differences really.

[swamp thing]

I agree with Rik.

Leave the 12" Dob, pick up your bins, then have another go. This object is HUGE.

From a dark sky it can be seen with the naked eye. It's that big.

My best advice. Go somewhere really dark with your bins you can't miss it.

[JulianFR]

Thanks Rik. What equipment would be better out of interest? My Stargazing for Dummies says it is "... easy to find under dark skies using binoculars or telescope with a wide FOV." Maybe I better stick to my other guides for astronomical info! (Although I wasn't at a really dark sky site, as I said).

[JulianFR]

Steve... Wrote before I saw your answer. So binoculars and dark sky. Thanks.

[John]

It took me years to spot this one. As said above, it's really too big for any scope and big binoculars under dark skies are probably the best way to spot it. I've seen parts of it with my 4" refractor and an ultrawide eyepiece which gives a 3.8 degree true field (more than 7x the apparent diameter of the Moon). Using a UHC or O-III filter can help increase the contrast on this object in fact some folks can use such a filter with the naked eye to spot it !

[Knight of Clear Skies]

Something a bit like this maybe, with binoculars from a dark enough site.

That's a crop of an image I took with a 50mm lens, rotated 90 degrees right. The nebula has about twice the apparent diameter of the Moon.

[John]

Nice pic 

I think the NA Nebula is larger  though - around 120 arc mins by 100 arc minutes.

[JulianFR]

Whoa, that is huge. And a bit like one of those Magic Pictures trying to make it out. Not at all what I would have been looking for.

Thanks for the guidance all.

[RikM]

So far, the best view I have had was with an ST80, a 20mm wide angle eyepiece and a UHC filter from a dark spot down in Devon.

[Knight of Clear Skies]

Nice pic 

I think the NA Nebula is larger  though - around 120 arc mins by 100 arc minutes.

You're right, it's about 3 1/2 Moons across.

Whoa, that is huge. And a bit like one of those Magic Pictures trying to make it out. Not at all what I would have been looking for.

Thanks for the guidance all.

Glad we could help. I'm hoping to try my 135mm lens on it sometime.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

It took me years to spot. First view was with 15x70 binoculars from a dark site in France. Oddly, the dark "Gulf of Mexico" part is a bit easier to spot than the rest. The best views I had was with the 80mm F/6 APM triplet with 40mm TMB Paragon or 31mm Nagler (5.7 and 5.3 deg FOV) with UHC filter. The Pelican was easy under those conditions as well

[JulianFR]

Maybe my ST 120 and a low power EP might show me something. Otherwise my 15 x 70s. Can't wait for the next clear night.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

15x70s can certainly do it. The 34mm in your ST120 should give abot 3.85 deg FOV, which should readily frame it. A UHC filter willcertainly help

[swamp thing]

It took me years too.

The strange thing is unlike others my first view of it was from moderately LP skies (5th mag visually) using a 16" reflector. Absolutely ridiculous scope to use. It kinda makes me laugh I advise others to use bins, but I saw it first through a huge scope like that

I "lucked" out. I had managed to point the big Dob directly at the Gulf of Mexico portion and the O-III filter I was using, 'popped' it into view......pure luck

Please don't try to copy my extremely lucky first glimpse though and use yoiur bins at a dark site. It's much easier like that trust me

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

The funny thing is that once you have got it, you wonder how you missed it before. I was always looking for something much smaller and brighter (more like M42). M42 is a very unusual emission nebula, many other nebula are much fainter and harder to spot.

[Stu]

I had a fabulous view of it from Dorset a few years back. As others have said, a wide field refractor or binos are best.

I used my 106mm with 31 Nagler (a blatant copy of John's setup :-) ), which gives 3.68 degrees fov, with an OIII filter it was nicely defined, particularly the Gulf region. This was after years of trying, similar to others experiences. I expect that transparency, as well as a dark sky, is very important.

This shows the view through the 300p/34mm (assuming 68 degree afov), vs the 106mm/31 nag

So, if you managed to find the gulf region then it may have been more obvious but otherwise, as said before, the nebulosity would just fill the fov and you will look right through it.

Stu

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[ronin]

To "squeeze" it into a sight you will need a 2 degree view and with a 1500mm FL scope and even with 80 degree eyepieces that means an eyepiece of 40mm. Even then to get it all in you will need to be aimed at the centre.

It's a biggie, you can count the size as 2x2 degrees for simplicity.

Also being a nebula you really need it to be dark.

[scarp15]

I believe that whilst the O-III filter is the accepted choice to gain the most contrast, a H-beta filter will also work towards enhancing this object. 15x70 binoculars can frame it nicely.

[Moonshane]

I saw it with my 6" f5 and 32mm plossl (about 2 degrees) from Glan Conwy last summer using the Oiii filter. the gulf area was very obvious and even managed to get the Pelican too. not a mega dark site

[nicks90]

just a possibly stupid question - but can this been seen with a UHC filter, or is it really only apparent with an Oiii?

I am thinking of having a go at this one next time its clear with my 70mm frac and 32mm plossl with a SW UHC on it.

[Stu]

just a possibly stupid question - but can this been seen with a UHC filter, or is it really only apparent with an Oiii?

I am thinking of having a go at this one next time its clear with my 70mm frac and 32mm plossl with a SW UHC on it.

Not a stupid question at all. Actually in a smaller scope the UHC may be better as it is a little less aggressive in its filtering.

You do need dark skies and good transparency to get it so don't be put off at the moment while it doesn't get gully dark.

Familiarise yourself with the field of view with your scope/eyepiece combination, that will make locating it much easier.

Stu

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[nicks90]

That's Stu, fairly used to the fov with the frac as I am using it as a 11x70 finder on my 12" dob. Just never thought of putting the uhc into it before!

[Tiki]

I usually star with zeta Cygni (mag 3.5ish) and then pan about a quarter of the way towards Deneb. This takes you to the 'Gulf of Mexico' and using this as a reference point I try and trace out the edges.

[Rapidray]

Thanks for the info on this one! Now I know what to look for also! nice photo J. - puts it into perspective very well.