If this is Atik's excellent support, I hope I never need it...

[JamesF]

As some will know, I have written a planetary imaging application for Linux and OSX.  For the upcoming release I've added support for the Imaging Source cameras on OSX (already supported by a native driver on Linux) and the Point Grey USB Firefly and Chameleon cameras on both Linux and OSX (actually the FireWire cameras may be supported too, but I have none to test).  The latter use the IEEE1394 camera protocol, often called IIDC or DCAM, but over USB rather than FireWire.

It was mentioned that the Atik GP may also use the same protocol, so I thought I'd drop an email to them just to check, and to ask for the USB vendor ID and product ID to identify the camera (this is the only way the software can know it has the right camera).  The IDs are hardly secret data -- they can be read from the Device Manager in Windows quite easily.  By adding the IDs to the software I hoped that it would allow anyone with such a camera to test it even if I couldn't.

Anyhow, two days later I received a terse email back from someone saying "I've been told this is correct.  If you want the VID and PID, plug it in and look in the device manager on Windows".  And that was it.

So I replied explaining that I was writing a capture application, that I didn't have their camera but that I wanted to be able to support it and if they could provide the two pieces of data in question I could add them to the code.  That was four days ago.  I've had no response.  Providing this information can only be of benefit to them and would only take a matter of seconds to do.  It appears however that they just can't be bothered.  Colour me quite unimpressed.

Since then however a potential alternative explanation has offered itself.  Thanks to another SGL member I now know the USB VID and PID for the camera.  And it looks as though perhaps the reason they might not want to offer up these items is to avoid questions about whether it is actually just a rebranded, re-housed Point Grey Chameleon in the first place because each different USB equipment vendor has their own VID and assigns the PID as  they see fit, so there's no way Atik's camera should have the VID and PID for the Chameleon camera (as it indeed does) unless that's exactly what it is.

I don't really care what the camera is or even if they want to claim it's theirs when it isn't.  But I do care that they show an interest in potential customers who might spend thousands of pounds on the kit they produce.  And in this case at least, they appear not to give a monkeys

James

[FLO]

Help me understand this please James. Are you cross with Atik because they might be sharing components with another manufacturer or because they haven't provided information necessary for your app's development? 

Speaking personally I don't know if they are sharing components or not but it doesn't concern me either way. Most manufacturers do share components (i.e. Celestron and Imaging Source). And if I were developing an app that depended on the support of manufacturers I wouldn't be trying to publicly embarrass one of them because they haven't responded in four days. 

If it helps I'll have a chat with them Monday for you 

HTH, 

Steve 

[JamesF]

I really don't mind if they're rebadging Point Grey's product, to be honest.  We all know how much it happens with astro gear and it doesn't bother me at all.  It was only when I found out that the GP looks like it's probably a rebadged Chameleon that the idea occurred to me that it could be the reason they're coy about the whole thing.  We all know it happens, but sometimes the kit manufacturers would prefer we didn't

What does get me a little irritated though is that I've politely asked a simple question about their products that wouldn't take more than a few moments to answer and they don't appear to consider it worthy of their time, especially when everyone says how good  their support is.  Actually, more than irritating, it disappoints me because even the tone of their initial response was so dismissive.  If they'd said "We can't tell you, it's our secret intellectual property" then I'd probably have responded explaining they were mistaken and moved on, but nobody likes being treated like they're beneath notice.  Especially not me

It's very kind of you to offer to talk to them and thank you very much for that, but I have since found someone who has one of the cameras and has been able to provide the information I was after.  I shall continue with my endeavours to support their camera, even if they aren't interested in supporting me.

James

[FLO]

I think you have jumped the gun James. 

I just sent a text to one of Atik's tech people. Here is his response: 

Hi Steve, I just had a look in the emails, James did email a second time and I did overlook it! (Had a day off) I answered his first email without the id's because I didn't have a camera in the office to plug in and get the id's from. Not to tease him..  

HTH, 

Steve

[JamesF]

If only I had your clout, Steve

As and when they respond to me, assuming they do, I am quite prepared to update this thread, but I can only comment on my own perception of how I have been dealt with thus far.

For clarity, the only benefit I derive from writing this software is the intellectual challenge and the kudos of having done so.  It is completely free for anyone to download and use, as is the source code which anyone is free to take and use in their own projects if they see fit.

James

[FLO]

I am looking forward to trying your App. I am sure Atik are too  

ATB, 

Steve 

[JamesF]

And I will be grateful for any feedback you have.  I have quite a few ideas for future features, but it's only when other people start to say "this would be useful" or "this part of the UI doesn't really work for me" that I have a clue what it's worth spending my time on.

James

[andrew65]

Tell you what James when you finished the project your on could you write the software for my galaxy note 3 to recognise a Web cam attached to it so I can use it with my scope I can't find anything on Web cheers ☺

andrew

[NickK]

Tell you what James when you finished the project your on could you write the software for my galaxy note 3 to recognise a Web cam attached to it so I can use it with my scope I can't find anything on Web cheers ☺

andrew

Using the positioning.. you could make it so you move the tablet around the sky.. the scope follows, building up a picture of the sky! Just need a lazy chair hooked up to rotate with the scope

[JamesF]

Atik have responded to my second email.   They're still not able to supply the information I need, but they have offered to supply a camera should I need one, which is most kind of them.  I'd prefer not to take advantage of people's offers of hardware unless I really need to but should it turn out that the GP doesn't work I may well do that.

James

[JamesF]

I meant to add, they also confirmed that it is the Point Grey camera under the skin.  As my Firefly MV works, I hope that means there's a good chance it will "just work" too.

James

[ollypenrice]

This thread is only in part about James's app. It is also about Atik's support. I know nothing about the app but, as a professional user of fve Atik cameras I have found their support to be top class, and I do mean top class. I rate their support as nothing short of perfect. SImple as that.

Olly

[FLO]

I have a feeling Atik dealers like ourselves are at least partly behind the Atik GP / Chameleon situation. We have been trying to persuade Atik to add a guider to their range for a while now. Atik weren't sure because, they said, there are already a number of good guiders on the market. Was there really room for another? We believed there was and argued the Atik range of cameras and accessories would be more complete if it included a guider. They promised to consider our request. I guess this tie-in with Point Grey (the Atik GP is based around Point Grey Chameleon electronics in an improved case) is the result because it has enabled them to deliver a guider without distracting too much of their attention from other more significant projects. 

Also, Atik are not the only big name brand teaming up with another manufacturer to produce a guider. The practice makes sound commercial sense so is much more common than you might think. 

As for Atik's support, I am biased of course but I think it is right up their with the very best. Plus they have a UK service centre. 

HTH,

Steve