0.965" ep's are old hat?

[moriniboy]

I got a few 0.965" ep's with my latest scope, a Vixen FL-80S.

Whlst I'm waiting for the 1.25" adaptor to be delivered from TS Germany I thought I would give them a clean and see what they could do.

Must admit I'm very impressed, I know we all used to get some pretty rubbish ones with our Tasco scopes back in the 80's but these are very good.

Collection currently stands at:

Circle V

Moon glass

Ortho 6mm

Ortho 7mm

Ortho 18mm

Ortho 25mm

Circle T

Ortho 4mm

Ortho 9mm

Unbranded

Kellner 12mm

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Nothing wrong with a well-made 0.965" EP. I had a Circle V 25mm ortho which was very nice indeed. I also had the Circle-T 4mm (or maybe 5mm) which I did not like, not so much due to image quality (which was fine), but due to eye relief.

[John]

I used to have some nice .965" eyepieces back in the 1980's including some of the Vixen orthos and some very nice plossls which I think were made by Polarex / Unitron. The Vixen (V) orthos turned out to be a symmetrical 2+2 design similar to a plossl, rather than the classic 3+1 orthoscopic, when I took them apart for cleaning though. They worked well enough though but I think they were fully coated or coated rather than fully multi coated as the decent ones today are.

It was my interest in achieving wider fields of view that drove me to 1.25" and ultimately to 2" though. The .965" 25mm plossl is restricted to around a 40 degree AFoV by the barrel. The AH 40mm was restricted to just 30 degrees !

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I took apart my 25mm ortho for cleaning and it was a triplet/singlet design certainly visually similar to the Abbe orthoscopic design. Maybe it was a Circle-T (I sold it almost 19 years ago, so details are hazy)

[Plantins]

The CZJ ortho's are amongst the best ortho's available even today. The polish, baffling, control of light scatter and light throughput make them superb planetary eyepieces.

Getting quite hard to get hold of nowdays. 

[estwing]

+1 for zeiss!

[RT65CB-SWL]

I use a 6mm/0.965" Ortho with Vixen 1.25" adaptor, and a 6mm/1.25" Ortho.

It was the first astro accessory I purchased when I used to own and use a Prinz Astral 500. It was a good performer than the H20mm, HM12.5mm & SR4mm eyepieces that were supplied with the 'scope.

I think it is/was from BC&F as I cannot find any identification as to the manufacturer on it as I puchased it second-hand and still is a good performer with the 'scopes/OTA's that I own today.

[nightfisher]

Have to admit, the swift eyepieces that came with my 839 are very good, but i have converted to 1.25 now

[alan potts]

Small FOV they may have been but people pay a great deal of money for Supermonocentics today and they only have 30 degrees, my friend recently had use of a Pentax 3.8mm eyepiece from many years back, this is considered to be amoung the best by any standard.

Alan

[Joves]

On a slight side-topic, but still keeping somewhat on topic, it's interesting to see that TMB are releasing a new 18mm and 21mm Supermonocentric, both offering 30 degree AFOV and 15.1/17.6mm eye relief respectively. So, I guess there is still a place for this type of eyepiece.

[Merlin]

There's been mention of taking eyepieces apart. We should avoid doing this.

[LeeB]

I also keep 5x  0.925 inch eyepieces in my normal eyepiece case, the best are orthos, the field of view is the same when at short mm and not limited by tube diameter anyway, the 7mm vixen is a superb planetery example.

[John]

Small FOV they may have been but people pay a great deal of money for Supermonocentics today and they only have 30 degrees, my friend recently had use of a Pentax 3.8mm eyepiece from many years back, this is considered to be amoung the best by any standard.

Alan

I bought and sold my 5mm TMB Supermonocentric for around £100. 6 months later they were changing hands for 3x that

[John]

There's been mention of taking eyepieces apart. We should avoid doing this.

I'd not advocate it, especially with complex types. The orthos I mentioned above were secondhand though and a little dirty and it was impossible to reach the field lenses to clean them without removing the lens elements from the barrel.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

orthos or Ep`s with narrow FOV are used for planetary views where you try and tweak out maximum detail as such you dont really need 50+ degrees of FOV.As for above mentioned 0.965" format,yes it is considered now outdated as all focusers these days are either 1.25 or 2" or even bigger,however,the quality of the eye pieces produced back then still have not been surpassed ,especially in orthoscopic range.(will be surpassed in 70 + deg range obviously).

Also majority of these Ep`s are now hard to find and in most cases will land in collections and will be used on rare occasion,as such,expect to pay very high,sometimes ridiculous price for a very good example.

Classics been mentioned above: CZ jenas,TMB supermonos,old Vixens,will have to add also very highly priced Pentax 0.965" orthos.Never had a chance to look through them but according to reviews all these are stunning eye pieces.

[John]

TMB Supermonocentrics are being produced again now in small volumes. They cost around £400 apiece.

I like Vixen eyepieces but I don't think any of their ranges have been quite in the same league as Zeiss orthoscopics or TMB Supermonocentrics.

The Pentax XO is a recent eyepiece which does match the optical quality of these "top tier" eyepieces although again they cost £250+ if you can find them.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

Vixen orthos,despite being good,where never "that" good to reach the "top" shelf.Still they are and where very good Ep`s and are relatively rare these days and i can bet there are people who are collecting them.

Pentax Xo is a strange thing.Pentax never made a whole line of them and discontinued these too.Really a shame as despite high costs of 250quid for an ortho, they where,as John mentioned,matching 400 and 800quid Zeiss`s and TMB`s.Possibly initially Xo was meant to be a successor of they SMC 0.965 series of orthos which are the top shelf Ep`s,but with a change of ownership they seem to lose they interest in astronomy.Again,thats my own thoughts. 

I have been lucky to have the Pentax XO 5mm and it is truly a stunning eye piece and i will be hard pushed to part with mine.i am not by any means collector and all my Ep`s are used on a regular basis

[alan potts]

Dude with the tube,

The 5mm XO is one eyepiece that I would like to add to my collection, I tried to get one from TS but there were two after the same eyepiece and I lost. My friend in Sofia was very lucky of late to use a Pentax 3.8mm, I think was an XF but it was the older one inch fitting, superb eyepiece by all accounts.

Alan

[John]

I'd echo Alan's desire to try a Pentax XO if the chance comes along. I've become a major fan of Pentax eyepieces over the past couple of years 

[alan potts]

I too love Pentax especially the short eyepieces, I am not so keen on the 14mm and sadly I have never seen the 20mm through to 40mm. The 10mm Rik says is top draw and maybe even a bit better than the 10mm Delos. I have spent a good long while with the 7mm,5mm and 3.5mm, they are as good as any I have owned.Your words John, what would they have made if they had set out to make telescope eyepieces, I guess the XO's were made for a telescope?

Alan

[Dude_with_the_tube]

i am a huge fan of Xo but not a fan of XW range unfortunately.Field curvature in the XW range is not appealing to me,but the generous eye relief on the other side is great.If i would have to decide Delos or Pentax,it would be Delos for me.however,i am trying to get the Meade 4000 series UWA smoothsides to cover 14mm range and higher powers for those days when i dont feel the mood for orthos.But then again,thats me personally

Surprised,that you both havent looked through the XO and i can highly recommend to have a look through one.i can bet after looking through one,your wallet will become 250quid lighter  

[Dude_with_the_tube]

My apologies of hijacking the thread.

just to give you some idea of what you are getting with Pentax Xo.

Firstly note the size of the box this Ep comes.Also EP comes in plastic bottle with 3 different manuals and other documents.(i didnt bother to read lol).

Ep is quite heavy and oozes quality.Also in comparison to 5mm BGO Pentax is slightly taller and wider.Also the top lens opening is bigger.Eye relief for Pentax is humble 3mm what is the same as for meade RG 4mm ortho!!! where BGO is i think 4mm.that bigger top lens does help for the tight eye relief.

here are the pics:

[alan potts]

Dude,

That is the very first time I have ever seen one in a picture that was not on a web-site, congratulations, maybe one day I will have one as well, I haven't even got the BGO at 5mm. You seem to love your otrthoscopics but I guess from reading a fair bit of what you write you have been collecting these for some years as many of them are very hard to come by. well done I am a bit green with envy.

Alan

[Dude_with_the_tube]

to be perfectly honest Alan,i would consider my self as a relative new comer in this hobby as this is my 4th year i have seriously devoted to it.I just like to read a lot about eye pieces,telescopes,get other peoples opinions and then see what i can do myself.Also i tend to get if not the best,then a really good quality things so i dont have the after thought of :should off saved up a bit and got that instead.(well you know what i mean ) and as a result,this evolved into a love to vintage eye pieces as they seem to have far superior quality and finish as the modern ones.Uk doesnt have the luxury of  365 cloudless days,also real life commitments doesnt allow me to observe every day ,as such on these rare nice nights i want to get out the best i can.On top of that,these vintage and hard to come by Ep`s doesnt really cost leg and arm and will possibly also be chaper as some other SGL members full cases of Pentax XWs or Televues.My Ep box has changed quite a lot,from full set of meade 5000`s i have gone down to only 4 Eps,then added another case with 2 sets of orthos and erfles and now again it is changing.But this time case Nr2 (ortho) will remain as it is,but my Ultra wide case is changing.Ethos is gone to a SGL member and hope he gets a better use out of it.next to go will be 9mm ES 100deg.Keeping 20mm ES and 30mm ES as there are no replacements for them,however,13mm Ethos and 9mm ES will be replaced with 4000 series Meade UWA smoothsides.i am sure you have heard of them and possibly also used them.good eye relief and 84 deg FOV.Sharp to the edge in all focal length and main thing:VINTAGE lol.Also i am getting the 1st run smoothsides not the 2nd one with rubber eye guard as 1st run is considered better.(well argument is still ongoing)

As for the cost.Lets add up:Ethos and ES together:close or lets say 500 quid. meade UWa 14mm 8.8mm and 6.7mm all together:300quid.Leaves me spare 200quid  and ability to find the missing 4.7mm if i want it to finish off the set.What i have lost in this deal and what i have gained:

1.Lost: high quality 100 deg Ep`s? yes and maybe,but they are still in production and can be picked up at any time i want them.

2.Lost: 100 deg fov to 84.well not a biggie as i dont really need 100 degrees in these focal ranges anyway.

Gained:

1.Superb quality vintage eye pieces what optically will be on the same lvl as ethos if not better.(not going to open a can of worms here) so lets say equal optical quality.they will keep they value and will also possibly increase as with the time going by they will become more and more rare what cant be said for either Ethos or ES.

2.SAVED 200quid.Ok if i want to get a full set then take off another 100 quid.

Obvioulsy i could off picked a Delos but they will set me back 200quid each and i need as a min 3 focal length so now you see why i like Vintage Ep`s and will take them over the modern ones any day.Apart of the price,i truly enjoy the looks of them and also having them in my hand you can clearly see or imagine that there was some guy somewhere in Japan 20 or 30 years ago sitting and hand polishing these tiny lens by hand and assembling these orthos is something what you dont get with the modern eye pieces.But then again,thats me and might not suit everyone  

[John]

I've owned quite a few of the Circle-T conical topped orthos and I used to have a nice set of University Optics Abbe Orthoscopics (pic below). I prefer the ergonomics of the "volcano topped" design but I found the more recently designed Baader Genuine Orthoscopics and University Optics HD orthos delivered brighter images and less light scatter around bright objects. There is no BGO in the 4mm focal length of course so I hung on to the UO for a while in that focal length.

"The Dude" says ".....you can clearly see or imagine that there was some guy somewhere in Japan 20 or 30 years ago sitting and hand polishing these tiny lens by hand and assembling these orthos.....". Well there was such a gentleman by the name of Tani-San. He retired in 2012 at 86 years of age and the production of Circle-T eyepieces ended at that point. I'm not sure he actually polished the lenses though.

As we so often say with eyepiece selection, much is down to personal preference and "Your Mileage May Vary" as the saying goes, and it quite probably will