First attempt at a Messier object (M3): More practice required.

[Moonshine132435]

So yesterday promised some excellent observing weather and I set up nice and early, giving my scope plenty of time to cool down. I only got out at about 11pm when the moon was already risen, but in return it was still lovely and warm out.

I warmed up on Mars (pleased that I could identify and find it without any charts, but why do I keep thinking I'll have more luck than everyone else and get great views?!) and of course the ever-pleasing Saturn. In spite of it's proximity to the moon it was still awesome and I'm sure that I saw cloud bands on the planet; next stop the Cassini division! My new Vixen 12mm NLV was doing a fine job, I can hardly wait for the 6mm to arrive this week.

However, the bigger challenge was that I wanted to navigate my way around to finding my first Messier object, it was time to put on the big boy pants and find M3! The city glow in South London is quite severe, but I easily identified Alkaid and Arcturis. Muphrid (or Murphy as I've been refering to it up to last night) and Cor Caroli were much fainter but I was confident I could make those out with the naked eye too. However, almost nothing was visible on the line between them. I tried navigating the scope in a line from one to the other but it's a very large arc and I just couldn't get the hang of it.

After half an hour working that line I took a break and sat back with the binoculars. Navigating was much easier of course, and I might, maybe, possibly have made out a very very faint fuzzy, but that was as far as it went.

It wasn't a complete washout though as it was a very pleasent evening and I saw six sattelites invisible to the naked eye which is a personal best and quite exiting in it's own right. I suspect having read Charlie_starz very elegant report from last night that I picked a hard target to find, given the light pollutiona and moon glow, but I'm not that experienced yet and looking for a Messier object requires quite a bit of preparation for me, making it difficult to switch from one target to another.

Still, it was a fun evening and I've learnt that I need to have a couple of targets to go after, just in case. Oh, and I've also learnt that Charlie_starz clearly is based in the Namibian desert 'cos he was getting way better viewing than me and it can't just have been down to my lack of skill at the eyepiece. Can it?....

[Charlie_starz]

Hi, great report. I am in South West London too - guess we had pretty much the same night last night. 

I had tried for M3 as well but gave up and moved onto M13 which I am sure I saw as a faint faint fuzzy. I think part of the fun and excitement about searching out the messier objects is in the hunt. That is why I had decided against a goto scope. For me that would take a lot of the fun and educational part from something that I hope will last a lifetime. Goto for me is very much in keeping with the current generation of wanting things now and not waiting. I think we will get more enjoyment looking and slowly finding these objects.

I think using the binoculars is a good tool to compliment your telescope and easier to track along lines between stars, at least identify other stars that you can center your scope on and begin the hunt again.

While we are still only on our first objects and are envious of those who have much more experience of these I bet they would love to be able to go back and experience that sense of wonder from finally seeing each new object. You will never get that time back so enjoy and good hunting. I think tomorrow night is supposed to be good as well, today looks a bit cloudy though.

I totally agree on how beautiful Saturn looked last night, even in such close proximity to the moon. I look forward to reading about how you get on over the next few weeks as I guess we will have pretty similar experiences.

[Moonshine132435]

Thanks for those encouraging words Charlie, I was getting a little frustrated that what limited time I get at the scope hadn't produced a single DSO yet, but that's the way it goes.

I totally agree about learning te sky, and I'd like to be in a position to find my way around the sky without a computer, and perhaps point out the one or other object of interest when the occasion arises.

Whereabouts are you based? I'm in Chessington and find that the sky to the SouthWest is good (I'm quite close to a large reserve in that direction) but the NorthEast is largely lost in City glow.

[neural]

Hi Moonshine (and Charlie), I'm in SW London too and was in your position two or three years ago. I do miss seeing things for the first time a bit, but coming to know the layout of the sky and how to find things is very rewarding - and it does happen, don't worry! 

M3 is a nice target but you have to catch it in a dark part of the sky. If you're looking to bag your first DSO, and you're willing to stretch the definition beyond 'faint fuzzy', can I suggest M57 the Ring Nebula? Easy to find, easy to see, bright and attractive. (Even my other half likes it and that's a stringent test indeed...)  It does need high magnification though - with your 10mm eyepiece (x75 I think?) you might just see it as bigger than a star, but you'll need to use the barlow to see the ring I expect. 

Personally I spend a lot of time looking at doubles - Cor Caroli is more than a useful landmark you know

Good luck! 

[Moonshine132435]

Thanks Neural, it's good to know that this won't go on for ever. M57 is a good tip, thanks, I'll give it a shot if these clouds ever lift. I now have a 6mm eyepiece so it's quite possible I'll see something nice.

[swamp thing]

Good stuff guys.

Nice to read some new people are taking up the hobby nearby. Hopefully get to meet up with you guys in the future for some observing.

Getting your first glimpses of DSO's like M3 are indeed pecial moments. I remember when I got my first 10" scope (many moons ago) and seeing globs as balls of stars for the first time. Happy memories.

Lots to discover out there

Have fun.

[Charlie_starz]

Thanks Steve and neural for the tips.

I was out again when we got a break in the clouds last night and spent some time on Mars and Saturn while I was waiting for it to get dark. I was just starting to really enjoy Saturn when it disappeared and I was disappointed to see that loads of clouds had come in from somewhere.

M57 is on my list, in fact I have a star map beside my scope of lyra and had intended on looking just there, but the clouds came in before it got properly dark and spoiled the party. 

I had been reading up on what to see in Lyra on this article:

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=436

Hopefully the moon will not be spoiling as much of the sky after the next few days, and we can get a break in the cloud cover I might have more success.

[Paul73]

Your Star hopping method it more of a star leaping method! That is a big bit of sky to navigate without a few interim, milestones.

The trick is to try targets that are close to bright stars until you have really got you eye in.

Try M53 as a bit of light relief if you are still struggling with M3. A nice globular cluster in Coma Berenices. Using your afore mentioned guide stars of Arcturus and Murphid (working from Arcturus). Follow the line of these two bright stars, continuing for about 2x the Arcturus to Murphid distance. You should see Diadem (mag 4.3 - the most southerly main star in Coma Berenices). About 1 degree up is M53. Using your 25mm, move up until Diadem is well out of your FOV (or about a 1/4 of a finderscope fov). A quick nudge to the left and there it is!

Obviously, it sounds easy.......

Good luck.

Paul

[Moonshine132435]

Thanks Paul, I'm really getting the feeling that I have to find my way succesfully to one DSO and then things will become clearer to me.

I tried M57 on Saturday night. To be fair it was full moon, and the clouds were intermittent, but there were some clear patches. I located Vega and Altair visually without any problems (and no stars were visible between them). I then went to my binoculars to hone in on Sulafat and Sheliak before going to the scope, but all of a sudden there were dozens of candidates. It took me half an hour of going back and forth between the bins and my star atlas to be reasonably certain I had the right pair in my sights. Moving to my finder scope with it's reversed view and the contortions I had to go through to see through it, I just lost all my bearings and ended up finding nothing at all.

I do have a new Altair finder coming which will help with the contortions and the reverse view, but I need to improve my star hoping quite a bit. Thanks for your guide to finding M53, I'll try that next and hopefully have some luck!

[goranmagdic]

I think I'm at around the same stage as you guys. I've seen Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and possibly M13 as a very faint fuzzy, but also found that using the upside down left/right view of the 6x30 finderscope left me feeling very lost! I've ordered a Telrad finder, so hoping that will make things a bit easier.

Lyra is in a perfect position from my garden at the moment, so think M57 might be my next target once I get a clear night.

[Paul73]

Sounds like the right approach. The moon is going to be your main enemy. Happily, by the weekend, it will be well out of the way!

It might be worth checking a couple of things. 1/ that your finder is actually inverted (mine isn't). 2/ that your brain can equate Distances as seen through the eyepiece to distances through the finder scope, to Binocular view, to naked eye. Choose a bright consolation such as Cassiopeia and work out which stars you can get into each FOV. Then you know how many FOVs you need to move to get close to your target.

Hope that this makes sense.

Paul

[Moonshine132435]

I'd be interested to see how you get on Goran, I was looking at a Telerad initally because it's simple, robust and inexpensive, but went for the Altair as I'm in quite a light poluted area and thought that the extra magnification would enable me to see more of the in-between stars.

Paul, you're idea of calibrating my expectations on a small, much tighter constellation is exellent. I was thinking of making small wire circles which approximate to the field of view of my bins and finder scope, to help me map out the star hopping via the atlas, but your idea is MUCH simpler! I'm sure my finder reverses as things move in completely the opposite direction to what they ought to. It feels like, if I move the scope far enough I'll end up looking at the back of my head!

[Charlie_starz]

I too am thinking of getting a telrad, but want to try and push on with what I have got first. Maybe it just takes perseverence and time to learn how to do it properly. If I wanted instant gratification I would have gone for a goto anyway.

Last night the clouds down here cleared up nicely around 9 and I was all set and had been working my way around Lyra, looking at the doubles and interesting items from the link I poseted yesterday. I was waiting for it to get properly dark when all of a sudden at 11:30 it clouded up again.

Lyra is for me in the perfect position in my garden at the moment and I am looking forward to the clouds once again clearing. I think this is going to be both an incredibly frustrating and exciting hobby at the same time.

Ah well, at least I can spend the cloudy time learning more about what I want to look at.

[neural]

Sorry to hear about the frustrations. I agree with Paul's advice - a big part of star-hopping expertise is getting to know how the same thing looks in each bit of equipment. Try using a pair or small group of naked-eye stars that are close together and moving around using binoculars, then finder, then scope. Actually alpha, delta, epsilon, zeta Lyr would do well, or try Mizar and Alcor maybe.

It isn't straightforward and I'm still learning.