ollypenrice Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 At last we have one of our own thanks to Moonshane, whose used example I bought. I tried one of these when Linton Guise brought one down some years ago and was ridiculously impressed. Several other guests have had the decency to appear with them since then but really it was time to fork out, so I did! It arrived robustly packaged and in as-new condition.How can you describe the perfect eyepiece? Every view confirms that this is what it is. Last night, once the imaging stuff was self-propelled, I got myself dark adapted and tried a few showcase objects, firstly in the F4.1, 20 inch Dob. M27,158x. The Dumbbell shape is very distictive with just a hint, on the outer edges, of the shells revealed in long exposure images. That's to say that the outer edges trail away with a soft, ragged edge, extended in places. The progenitor star is clearly visible as a tiny pinprick in direct vision. It is not at all ambiguous. While large, the image is also bright and the huge FOV allows you a nice long time to concentrate between nudges. Contrast is excellent. Large apertures can flatten the Dumbbell into a rather disk-like circle but not in the Ethos.Despite the unbelievable field, which has you moving your head to find the field stop, the sharpness to the edge is miraculous. A Plossl in this scope is quite queazy at the edges with not a fraction of the field. In the Ethos I was perfectly comfortable and everything felt optically in order.Now for the TEC140 giving 75x. This is a truly stunning visual apo, the kind of scope that makes refractor buffs out of doubters. I've now had it for several years but, honestly, every new view is still a 'Wow' moment. I headed for the Wild Duck cluster, baffled, as ever, by why anyone would call it that. It was simply incredible. The stars are tiny, tiny, but so sharp and crammed together in straight little lines against a jet black background. If you told me it was a sci-fi city-sized space station I'd believe you. It does look like a pilot's view of a grid-plan city. Stars should look like this in a telescope.Cruising the central Milky Way. A treat! Craning into the edges of the field you have perfect stars across the entire vista, and I really mean perfect. The background sky is tantalizingly irregular with patches of truly black obscuring dust and other patches hinting at nebulosity. Here the Ethos contrast is the key. Small nebulae appear in the window and drift past. Suddenly there's a colourful evolved star, strikingly orange. 'Lost in space' really does describe the sensation. And so on and on. I like observing like this, in tourist mode and without an agenda.Is it worth the asking price? No, it's worth twice the asking price and the rest.Olly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan46 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 We don't often get a visual report off you it's been a real treat thankyou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.h.f.wilkinson Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Nice visual report. Is the ethos enough to tempt you over to the light side? I look forward to having a peek through that hunk of glass this summer. We can then compare it to my 14mm Radian and 12mm Nagler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollypenrice Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 Nice visual report. Is the ethos enough to tempt you over to the light side? I look forward to having a peek through that hunk of glass this summer. We can then compare it to my 14mm Radian and 12mm Nagler I've never left the light side! I'm always cruising around in the 8x42 bins, the little Pronto and the Dob, plus whatever refractor isn't tied up with the imaging. Mind you, my eyesight is dismal.Yes, Ethos and 12 Nagler will be a good one. I don't know the mid sized Naglers. (I've a 4.8 and a 26.)Olly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker1947 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Nice write up Olly, i have been studying these EP's and with the wife going away for a week in August and the sky's getting darker earlier something may turn up in a van..........http://www.telescopehouse.com/acatalog/TeleVue_Eyepieces.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamp thing Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Funnily enough I tried a 13mm Ethos (again) in my 20" f/4 this weekend Olly. Nice......Nice enough to give up my 12mm T4??? Not yet. Although Barlowed on M13 it was very nice not to have to nudge as often. Maybe one day. Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joves Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Olly, it's not often we get to read reviews from you. Plenty of well thought, experienced advice, but not a lot of first-hand reviews. After this one, I'm wishing we had a few more. An absolute treat! I'm pretty sure it was a review of the eyepiece, but for some reason I'm left wanting a TEC140... Your write ups could prove quite dangerous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshane Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 nice one Olly - enjoy! We are both winners (although maybe given your last comment I should have double my asking price? ) from this deal. You get the eyepiece you've wanted for a while and I get (soon) a solar scope better than I'd have ever hoped for (plus a 12mm T2 - also awesome for the price). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshane Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 ps the only reason I can think of it being called the wild duck cluster is that whomever discovered it may have said 'ooooooh Vera' a la Jack Duckworth on their first view through the eyepiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emadmoussa Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Nice report. Quite passionate I had recently the chance to try the Ethos 13mm side by side with the Explore Scientific 14mm. The scope was a 12" f/4.9. For the life of me, I could barely see the difference. Both of them showed a slight amount of coma around the very edge - very negligible frankly. 95% identical performance. The Ethos was only a little bit better...for the price, is it worth paying the extra £200 as opposed to the ES? Ermm, I don't believe it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joves Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Wash your mouth out, Emad... How could you even compare the two?!Kidding... I've never tried the ES ep's, but apparently they are very good! Not sure if there is 200 pound between the two, but they don't start in Tele and end in Vue!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emadmoussa Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Ah well... ES are massively underestimated. I had both the Delos 10mm and 6mm. Brilliant eyepieces, but when I downsized I sold the Deloi and kept the ES 100-deg ones. I think there's a degree of subjectivity in there - and your mileage might vary. I would like an Ethos, but will I pay £200 extra? Nope. Quite happy with the ES EPs Actually, my impressions were similar http://www.explorescientific.com/eyepieces/14mm_100%20degree_deprest_review.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joves Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Yours isn't the first I've read stating there is very little between the two, so I bet those ES's are well worth keeping hold of. They're not nearly as common a find over here, so I had to opt for the black and green. If I was planning on keeping them for only a short time, I'd be wishing I had a less expensive option, but I figure they're keepers and will outlast me (and I'm currently only 35), so paying the extra doesn't really register for me in the overall scheme of things.Back on topic though, the 13mm is arguably the pick of the bunch. I only wish I got it under clear dark skies more often, like in did on the weekend just passed. Like the term or not, it's hard to argue with uncle Al's spacewalk ambitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollypenrice Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 Call me old fashioned, but TeleVue invent these things and the others copy them. Without TeleVue, would ES and Meade be offering the EPs they do? I have my doubts. I've also had considerable personal help from a TV optician regarding the repair of a damaged instrument so I like them as a firm and wish to support them. It seems that it is nigh on impossible to patent eyepieces so as soon as TV do something new they get copied.I'll stick to TeleVue. They've served the amateur community so well over the last thirty-odd years that I think they deserve our support.Olly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emadmoussa Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Yes indeed, Televue lead the progress in this regard. However, if somebody is willing to give me a similar quality eyepiece for a cheaper price...then why not?! I don't think sticking to TVs is old fashioned though. Like aforementioned, it's a personal preference at the end of the day. I have to admit though, the Ethos showed better tolerance in faster than f/4.5 scopes. I guess for my ES EPs, if I go faster than f/4.5 I can see myself investing in a Paracorr Type 2. Having checked it out first hand, the TV coma corrector is definitely a fantastic piece of kit. Quite expensive...but for the sake of getting a massive aperture without an eyepiece 500 meters in the air, the Paracorr is worth the investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshane Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I don't think they are that expensive (in a way). I sold the eyepiece for a few quid less than I bought it (used) after about three years of careful ownership. It's pretty much in the condition I received it in and in terms of the views they are unchanged. Total cost to me was <£1 per month. Not expensive by most people's standards. Have I justified it yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emadmoussa Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I don't think they are that expensive (in a way). I sold the eyepiece for a few quid less than I bought it (used) after about three years of careful ownership. It's pretty much in the condition I received it in and in terms of the views they are unchanged. Total cost to me was <£1 per month. Not expensive by most people's standards. Have I justified it yet? That's like a mortgage, you gain more out of your asset as time goes by... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.h.f.wilkinson Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Yes indeed, Televue lead the progress in this regard. However, if somebody is willing to give me a similar quality eyepiece for a cheaper price...then why not?! I don't think sticking to TVs is old fashioned though. Like aforementioned, it's a personal preference at the end of the day. I have to admit though, the Ethos showed better tolerance in faster than f/4.5 scopes. I guess for my ES EPs, if I go faster than f/4.5 I can see myself investing in a Paracorr Type 2. Having checked it out first hand, the TV coma corrector is definitely a fantastic piece of kit. Quite expensive...but for the sake of getting a massive aperture without an eyepiece 500 meters in the air, the Paracorr is worth the investment. You yourself note there is a small difference in fast scopes, and small differences at the top end cost a lot of money, experience shows. Much also depends on the observer. A seasoned observer might spot differences that a casual or inexperienced observer would not. This is why I would not advise any novice to get the high-end kit. Plossls (even cheap ones) can give excellent views, as can many other affordable designs. I spent more years peering through Plossls than Naglers, and although I never regretted switching, I never regretted using the Plossls (except for the 10mm, that eye relief was a pain). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emadmoussa Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Yes, but for me personally it won't affect my views since I'm getting my 14" Flextube soon, and it's f/4.5 and I can't see myself going faster any time in the foreseeable future. I still use Plossls every now and then. Mostly when I do alignment or star collimation. They tend to make me dizzy after few minutes though...perhaps I need to have my eyes checked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I think what Olly meant by old fashion was not just the use of T.V. but the loyalty to a company that has pioneered class glass rather than just ripping it off and the support they give their customers. I would say that yes...loyalty is probably concidered old fashion these days. Shame really . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkis Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Mmmm!14" glass sounds good.But,I wonder if eyepieces, with all the various makes, designs and touchy feely attraction, are becoming a bit of an obsession these days.There are so many threads where eyepieces are discussed, mulled over, and categorised, it starts to get very confusing, especially fornovices. I think like many other products in this modern age, a lot of the hype is sales oriented.I am not an expert by any means, and I'm aware that many guys on the forum would fit the expert category.However, when I see images of some Eyepiece collections, I have to suppose there could be some one upmanship going on.They look damned pretty for sure, but are they all needed, and are the differences in performance justifiable, considering the cost of them?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Mmmm!14" glass sounds good.But,I wonder if eyepieces, with all the various makes, designs and touchy feely attraction, are becoming a bit of an obsession these days.There are so many threads where eyepieces are discussed, mulled over, and categorised, it starts to get very confusing, especially fornovices. I think like many other products in this modern age, a lot of the hype is sales oriented.I am not an expert by any means, and I'm aware that many guys on the forum would fit the expert category.However, when I see images of some Eyepiece collections, I have to suppose there could be some one upmanship going on.They look damned pretty for sure, but are they all needed, and are the differences in performance justifiable, considering the cost of them?.I don't know the answers to your questions Ron but I do notice that the eyepiece section of astro forums are usually one of the most active sections Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshane Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 other than frac vs newt, probably the most hotly debated too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faulksy Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 hi olly, itried my 13mm ethos for the first time in anger on friday night (thats the one steve was on about) and it stayed in the focuser most of the night, the only time it didnt was when dan or steve used it, the dumbell was like i have never seen it before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkis Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I was just airing my own thoughts. I hardly spend any time in eyepiece threads, simply becausemy technical knowledge of them wouldn't fill a little finger thimble.I wasn't casting aspersions in any direction either.I also add, that people are of course, free to spend their money as they like.I used to own a 18mm Erfle of military extraction. It had a brass body, and cost me a fiver years ago from a breakers yard.A far cry from todays Gems, but that eyepiece was rarely out of my F5 8" Relector. I loved it.I let it go with another Reflector I made, and sold for a pittance to a youngster. I've regretted it ever since.The best EP in my small arsenal now, is a Celestron Axiom 19mm I bought from Flo at Lucksall a couple of years ago.Anyway, I will visit eyepiece topics more regularly from now on. I feel I need to get educated .Ron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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