Solar Scope question

[Davey-T]

Quick question for all you Solar experts, would I get better visual / imaging with a 60mm double stack or an 80mm single stack.

Dave

[Zakalwe]

The 80mm will give higher resolution (though possible not that much different visually) . Plus the DS isn't needed for proms.

But, the DS will give much better visual results on the disc...heaps more contrast and many more details.

You could always get the SS and then mount a smaller D Etalon up front?

[Davey-T]

Thanks Stephen, had a look at the excellent images on you're website, would an 80mm scope mean less panels for a mosaique ?

Dave

[Zakalwe]

Thanks Stephen, had a look at the excellent images on you're website, would an 80mm scope mean less panels for a mosaique ?

Dave

That's more a function of the camera chip size, to be honest.

[IanWatkins]

DS will lower the amount of light so frame rates will drop for imaging, drastically.

If visual, go DS. If imaging, go aperture/resolution (to a limit).

Cheers

Ian

[Davey-T]

So why do they make 100mm plus Solar scopes, not to capture more light presumably.

Dave

[Moonshane]

would a smaller double stacked etalon not reduce the effective aperture and reduce resolution?

[Luke]

For visual, I prefer double stacked. My eyes struggle a bit with the lower contrast of single stacked. Proms are fine and in fact brighter in single stack mode, but I can still see proms well enough in double stack and the disc detail is much easier for me to see with double stack.

For imaging, I am happy enough with a single stack. With the right settings the screen shows much better contrast in single stack mode than I can see through the eyepiece, and of course you can adjust contrast to some degree during processing. Some folks who know much more than me what they are doing, do image double stacked, I hope they will chip in here with what they like about double stack imaging.

A 60mm scope does have one advantage over the 80 for imaging, in that it is a shorter focal length so depending on which camera you are using, it might need fewer tiles to get a full disc, if you like full disc imaging.

A larger aperture solar scope can make it easier to see fainter proms, faint proms can still be very faint, on the brink of visibility. And the larger scope gives you more resolution, so you can image or view at a longer focal length and "get in closer"

For me, I'd take the 60 double stack for visual or for visual + imaging, and for imaging mostly/only, temptation would get the better of me and I'd take the 80 single stack.

[Davey-T]

The Lunt 60mm comes with 600 or 1200 internal etalon so what's the difference ?

Dave

[Uplooker]

The Lunt 60mm comes with 600 or 1200 internal etalon so what's the difference ?

Dave

It comes with a 600 or 1200 blocking filter, not etalon. This is located at the EP end i.e. the diagonal and essentially means that you get to see more "real estate"

Ian

[Davey-T]

Thanks Ian, trying to get as much info as possible before spending in haste and repenting later.

Is there any way of altering the DS to SS or is it fixed ?

Dave

[Moonshane]

Same here Dave - I am after the 50mm Lunt - new out on July August and it's a big purchase for me. I am thinking B600 blocking filter and if hooked eventually a further double stacked 50mm etalon. but I'll need to save up a while longer for the latter!

[Zakalwe]

Thanks Ian, trying to get as much info as possible before spending in haste and repenting later.

Is there any way of altering the DS to SS or is it fixed ?

Dave

Normally to double stack you fit the second Etalon in front of the objective, like this:

The front of the Lunt objective is threaded to allow this.

Etalons are expensive and the cost rises exponentially with the diameter, so big external Etalons are mega expensive.

Lunt has recently introduced internal double-stacks. AFAIK these are only available for the L80 and L100:

It is harder to image with a DS as the light is drastically reduced so you have to use slower frame-rates. Plus there's a bit of an art to getting both Etalons on-band and  eliminating the ghost reflections & sweet-spots.

A single stack will produce excellent images. The DS will give finer details on the disc, but at the beginning it's far easier to hone your skills with a SS.

Here's an example off the Lunt website:

[Davey-T]

This from Lunt 80 specs does this have any bearing on DS versus SS ?

Thanks for compare pic's Stephen, don't want to be a cynic but the DS version looks better maybe just Lunt wanting to sell dearer version

Another thought exactly how much effect does it have on exposure times DS versus SS ? I wouldn't have thought it much with such a bright object (as you can see I know nothing)

Dave

[Zakalwe]

This from Lunt 80 specs does this have any bearing on DS versus SS ?

Thanks for compare pic's Stephen, don't want to be a cynic but the DS version looks better maybe just Lunt wanting to sell dearer version

Dave

Lunt-80mm-spec.jpg

You can upgrade the L80 with either a 60mm external Etalon or the internal Etalon. Both cost €2000, but the internal Etalon will retain the full 80mm objective.

The Double-stack will be better, but its a bit harder to use. Although I am no expert when it comes to processing, I still can see that those example images haven't been that well processed. There's uneven field illumination, for a start, which could have been removed with a false-flat. In fact, the SS image has more even illumination, which is to be expected.

As with all parts of astro-photography, so much of this gig is in the processing.

[Uplooker]

Same here Dave - I am after the 50mm Lunt - new out on July August and it's a big purchase for me. I am thinking B600 blocking filter and if hooked eventually a further double stacked 50mm etalon. but I'll need to save up a while longer for the latter!

Quoted Shane here but it equally applies to others that have posted similar queries. The double stack is good, and this is a personal opinion (can only give my opinion) the expense does not bring the improvement in views that the expense incurs. The views given by a H-alpha scope are truly amazing without having to spend the sizable amount of extra cash for the DS. Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one.

Ian

[Moonshane]

cheers Ian. I am solely a visual observer and feel you have just saved me quite a bit

[Zakalwe]

Personally, I think that the DS makes the visual view a heck of a lot better (I have a 50mm external on my L60). The single-stack view is amazing, but the DS view is breath-taking. The difference really is that extreme.

However, I am primarily an imager and the DS module doesn't make that much difference for imaging. It's there, but it makes you work that bit harder. It's probably a LOT easier to get a poor image with the DS than it is to get a good image with the SS.

[Davey-T]

So I'm leaning toward the LS80 , B1200, S/Stack, I understand this comes with a zoom eyepiece, any thoughts on this eyepiece ?, and a Sol searcher is this useful or a gimick ?

Dave

[Sarah]

From my point of view, adding the double stack to the SolarMax 60 made a real difference visually. For imaging, I think the single stack is fine. With the SS 60 the surface detail is lacking to a certain extent and with the DS it really comes to life. I remember reading some reviews where some people said the DS makes it all a little bit more 3D. Now would an 80 SS be better visually than the 60 DS? I do not know. It may well be. But as we were able to pick up the DS filter secondhand for £600 it was a relatively cheap option for making quite a difference to the views. Of course £600 is not cheap by any means, but in terms of Ha Solar Scopes/filters it is relatively cheap. At the end of the day any Ha solar scope is enough to provide some amazing views. But with anything, is a little bit extra worth the additional cost? To some it is and others it is not. I had the briefest of looks through a Solarscope 70 filter. That was a lovely view, but it comes with a nice price tag too. I didn't really have long enough at the eyepiece to decide how the surface detail views were against our DS 60. No doubt it was better in some respect. The Solarmax is not perfect, by any means, as it has issues with a sweet spot, but for me the overall cost to get the views we have was definitely worth it.

Sarah

[Luke]

I haven't used the zoom myself, Shaun recently got one to use with his Lunt, he posted a review here:

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/215869-lunt-72-215mm-zoom-review/

I use a Sol Searcher with my white light scopes, it's a nice little bit of kit that I do genuinely find useful. To keep costs down, you can make your own finder. Or I used to, like others, use the shadow cast by the scope to get it roughly lined up. I find the searcher more precise, a little bit quicker and slightly more comfy. FLO sell one for Lunt scopes for £34 to give you an idea of value, I paid less for mine but I don't know if FLO's version has some sort of adapter for the Lunt?

[Zakalwe]

 and a Sol searcher is this useful or a gimick ?

Dave

You can make one quite easily and certainly cheaper than £35.

However, I wouldn't be without mine. Get it....it's pennies when compared to the £3500 that the Ls80 will cost.

[allcart]

It seems we all have different experiences and opinions on this subject. I have never looked through the 80mm but have seen some very good images. But I do have the 60mm with a 60mm DS filter and b1200 and would buy it again in a heartbeat. The views with the DS filter are far more contrasty and detailed than the SS. Even for imaging I will take the DS in most situations. I will however image proms in SS mode, but surface is usually DS.

To me, the beauty of the lunt60 with 60mm DS filter and B1200 is that I can use as a SS or DS. I can also use the 60mm DS and B1200 on a larger scope as a SS if I want more focal length and a closer view. It works very well on scopes around the 1000mm f/10 range. Yes you are restricted to the 60mm aperture of the DS etalon but the views are still good and imaging even better.

Basicly it gives me multiple choice of scopes.

[Luke]

Looks like it fits nicely on the clamshell, very neat. It goes on the clamshell in a similar fashion on my 85mm scope. I know it's only a finder, but that is a neat fit close to the scope body, nicely tucked out the way

You can make one quite easily and certainly cheaper than £35.

However, I wouldn't be without mine. Get it....it's pennies when compared to the £3500 that the Ls80 will cost

[Davey-T]

It seems we all have different experiences and opinions on this subject. I have never looked through the 80mm but have seen some very good images. But I do have the 60mm with a 60mm DS filter and b1200 and would buy it again in a heartbeat. The views with the DS filter are far more contrasty and detailed than the SS. Even for imaging I will take the DS in most situations. I will however image proms in SS mode, but surface is usually DS.

To me, the beauty of the lunt60 with 60mm DS filter and B1200 is that I can use as a SS or DS. I can also use the 60mm DS and B1200 on a larger scope as a SS if I want more focal length and a closer view. It works very well on scopes around the 1000mm f/10 range. Yes you are restricted to the 60mm aperture of the DS etalon but the views are still good and imaging even better.

Basicly it gives me multiple choice of scopes.

Sorry to be thick Allen, are you saying the DS goes on the front of your scope ? reading on the Lunt site it extols the virtue of having two stacked at the rear of the scope on the 80mm.

Dave