Lodestar Live Version 0.8 (Beta) Download

[HiloDon]

Hope you can make it back sometime. We're located lower on the mountain, but the view of the Milky Way is still stunning. The other advantage here is that we're at a latitude of about 20 degrees north, so we see the Southern Cross and many of the southern DSO's. As soon as I get the hang of the new setup I'll post some images. I suspected that your primary development was on a Mac platform. Thanks again for all your hard work.

[Paul81]

Further to my update on 10th May, I did a bit more work on live stacking on Sunday and I think things are almost there now, it certainly seems to make a reasonable result with all the data I throw at it, although there are a few bits to sort out. I am now planning on migrating the code into the main application. During that process I need to also tidy some bits up. Once that is complete i can work on the last few issues, but I can also make a video of what a live stacked session will be like (using a test mode which takes saved exposures and injects them into the main code in lieu of the actual camera). I will of course post updates on progress!

Below are a couple more results from the live stacking.

M101 raw 30s image (you can barely even see it!) - this was taken under string moonlight:

After 10 mins of continuous observing:

The following are results using data kindly provided by Martin. See Martins posts for the original single exposures, these are the results after about 9 - 12 mins continuous observing. Unlike myself, Martin uses the Lodestar-C - these results are monochrome as my test harness only outputs monochrome (although as mentioned before the processing is actually RGB). Once I have the stacking code integrated in the main app I can run these again and export the result in full colour.

I have played with a mixture of stacking modes (sum, mean and median). The hybrid modes are on the list to add after I have migrated the code to the main app. I think the hybrid modes will really shine on galaxies. They introduce some complexities, hence why I've decided to add them after the current modes are integrated and polished.

[SkyGibbon]

Looks great. Eagerly waiting the next release. Thanks for your time coding this.

[nytecam]

Thanks Paul for the programming update and fine images [and also those of Martin's].  You've mentioned some of your stacking routines quicky reach saturartion.  Under my severe LP maybe 1/2 or more of the image signal is sky background and must be remove to 'black' [currently manually via SX s/ware] BEFORE stacking - will your next update [v0.9?] allow for this?

[Paul81]

Thanks Paul for the programming update and fine images [and also those of Martin's].  You've mentioned some of your stacking routines quicky reach saturartion.  Under my severe LP maybe 1/2 or more of the image signal is sky background and must be remove to 'black' [currently manually via SX s/ware] BEFORE stacking - will your next update [v0.9?] allow for this?

Hi Maurice! The sum stack method can reach saturation quite quickly depending on the target. This mode is not good for bright objects (PN or galaxies with very bright cores), but is really good for faint objects and low quantities of exposures. For example, in my previous post the Horsehead nebula shot was stacked using sum, and given the small number of exposures gave the best result by far compared to mean or median. For M1, sum saturated out parts of the PN, so mean gave a better result. Its really a matter of experimenting and getting used to what modes are best for a given situation.

As for LP, in my head I was viewing LP as noise, and so stacking should hopefully increase signal to noise ratio so it was my hope that after a given number of exposures you can tune the LP out to black by setting the black level in the display processing so it is above the LP but below the target signal portion of the histogram, as the stacking should hopefully have notched the true signal up a bit in the histogram. I am also putting a change into the display processing so you can stretch the histogram even more to hopefully try and separate the noise and signal parts of the histogram.

Would it be possible to get the raw FITS files of one of your imaging runs on a single target so I can have a play? If required, it would be great to have something in there to optimise out LP as a lot of people in video astro are effected by LP so its defiantly something worth while to work on! If it needs something over and above setting the black level then I doubt that will be in 0.9, but would be in a subsequent release!

[nytecam]

Thanks Paul - as you correctly state 'LP' is noise and your explanation for dealing with it is logical and thus reassuring :-) I'll try for some suiting LPed image sets soon :-)

[NickK]

Maurice, Paul,

So that's effectively a histographic stretch with a black level based on the gaussian background level. This will look like an alpha level filter with holes in.. I have a suggestion that may help.

If you're going todo this - you'll miss the "fuzzes". Instead do upscaling - or drizzle in the depth domain during stacking. Only once you've stacked the upscaled depth other wise you'll loose the subtle non-noise components. If you don't do it this way your camera will quickly become an 8 bit dynamic range camera..

You could even do adaptive stacking in this way based on the upscaled gaussian average at that point in the image.

Nick

[Paul81]

Hi Nick,

Thanks for the info, I read your full explanation on the other post - I'll have to digest it all further (you know way more than me!  ). Anything we can do to beat the orange menace into submission has got to be looked at carefully!!

[cwiecha]

Just want to report in that based on this topic I have obtained a LodeStar x2 and begun to use LodeStarLive for real-time visual imaging from my home in Westchester, NY...just outside of NYC there is of course considerable light pollution.  I do, however, get really excellent results without filters often under 60 sec, but still within a couple of minutes.

I'm using an 8" RC, iOptron iEQ45, and Orion Starshoot autoguider with PhD Guiding.  All in all a very enjoyable setup.

I'm truly looking forward to the release with stacking but having a great time in the meantime.  Thanks so much for doing this great software!!

Charlie Wiecha

[Paul81]

Hi Charlie, great to hear you are having great fun with the app, it is always great to hear other people are getting good use out of it! Looking forward to seeing some of your pics!

[Mac4Lyfe]

First post - Paul, this software is awesome. I'm just starting to use it but love what I see. I'm sure I'm going to have a long learning curve. I'm a little confused with how people use long exposure times? It seems whenever I go over 20 - 30 seconds my screen turns white. So I really can't figure out how to do a long exposure (lodestar mono camera)? No matter what I do with the black/white levels, my image become non viewable. I get good images under 20 seconds. Especially if I use a bright object, it will get blown out if I expose too long. What am I missing? I can stack multiple  images under 20 seconds and get great results but I don't know how to do longer times???

Any help is appreciated.

Just want to report in that based on this topic I have obtained a LodeStar x2 and begun to use LodeStarLive for real-time visual imaging from my home in Westchester, NY...just outside of NYC there is of course considerable light pollution.  I do, however, get really excellent results without filters often under 60 sec, but still within a couple of minutes.

I'm using an 8" RC, iOptron iEQ45, and Orion Starshoot autoguider with PhD Guiding.  All in all a very enjoyable setup.

I'm truly looking forward to the release with stacking but having a great time in the meantime.  Thanks so much for doing this great software!!

Charlie Wiecha

[Mac4Lyfe]

Oops, I didn't mean to post to an older thread with the older software.  Sorry about that.

Here are a few first light images I was able to save in LL. I'm using a Nexstar 11 with Hyperstar F2. I forgot to record exposure times but they were around 10 - 15 seconds each and stacked maybe 3 - 5 median frames. I didn't really adjust my blacks/whites much as I'm just trying to figure everything out.  I'm not sure what is the 2 dark streaks on the left of the images. Could be the cord? Or maybe dust? There's also an artifact in the middle of the screen that looks like a figure 8. My scope mirror is pretty dirty and probably needs a professional cleaning.

[arkosg]

Hi Mac4Lyfe,

Some nice results!

Paul has some videos in one of the earlier threads that show some of the adjustments to exposure, etc. Do a search for "processing videos" in the forum and you should find them.

Your white screen sounds like overexposure - common especially with sum stacking, but certainly possible with a sensitive setup like yours. It is definitely possible to do longer exposures, but the results are dependent on your configuration, light pollution, etc.

Cheers,

Greg A

[HiloDon]

Merry Christmas, Charlie,

That setup with the Hyperstar really gives great results. I agree with Greg on your exposure question. Regarding your artifacts, I suspect it has something to do with the routing of your cable. It's not dust. The only dust that would show up would be on the window of the LS sensor, and it wouldn't be concentric circles. I'm not that familiar with Hyperstar set ups and how the camera cables should be run, so you might want to search for Hyperstar problems and questions. Starizona may have something on their site.

Good luck and please keep posting future results. This is the first time I've seen Hyperstar + LS.

Don

[HiloDon]

Sorry, Mac4Lyfe, I see you are not Charlie.

Merry Christmas to all!

Don

[Mac4Lyfe]

Thanks so much for the reply/help guys. I hope you all are having a wonderful holiday.

Even without stacking I'm getting overexposed rather easily. also have an Zwo Asi 120 Mc that also gets over exposed on anything over ~30 seconds. I'm not using any filters, maybe my Houston lit skies are the cause? Any tips on reducing overexposure? I have a celestron uhc/lpr filter. What if I went to a higher focal ratio (I have a 6.3f reducer too)? I'm constantly amazed when I see folks with long exposures because I can't seem to do.

Hi Mac4Lyfe,

Some nice results!

Paul has some videos in one of the earlier threads that show some of the adjustments to exposure, etc. Do a search for "processing videos" in the forum and you should find them.

Your white screen sounds like overexposure - common especially with sum stacking, but certainly possible with a sensitive setup like yours. It is definitely possible to do longer exposures, but the results are dependent on your configuration, light pollution, etc.

Cheers,

Greg A

Yeah, I'm hoping it's just the cable as I just let it hang off my dew shield. The 2 shaded circles look like unfocused stars. Real weird, I think the lodestar camera has 2 ridges, I'll have to look closer if that could be the cause. I'm real happy with initial results and I love Paul's software. I've been lurking here the last month and your posts/pics convinced me to take the plunge, so much thanks. I'm probably buying the color camera soon as well.

Merry Christmas, Charlie,

That setup with the Hyperstar really gives great results. I agree with Greg on your exposure question. Regarding your artifacts, I suspect it has something to do with the routing of your cable. It's not dust. The only dust that would show up would be on the window of the LS sensor, and it wouldn't be concentric circles. I'm not that familiar with Hyperstar set ups and how the camera cables should be run, so you might want to search for Hyperstar problems and questions. Starizona may have something on their site.

Good luck and please keep posting future results. This is the first time I've seen Hyperstar + LS.

Don

[arkosg]

Hey guys,

I've just received a Hyperstar for our 8" Edge HD, which I'm hoping to be able to try out in the new year (weather/time dependent!) with the Lodestar,

so hopefully I'll be able to say more about how well that setup works & any quirks I come across with regard to exposures, etc.

Charlie - I think the skyglow can be a real difficult thing to account for, though it sounds like you are doing all the right things (eg. filters).  I've noticed 

a huge difference when I "shoot" low & toward Vancouver (in the east), and how my exposures look, vs. high in the sky.  Don's lucky to have what 

seems to be nice dark skies, and you can see in his pics that he can do pretty long exposures without blowing out the background.

Happy holidays!

- Greg A

[arkosg]

Whoops, I just looked back and noticed that you weren't Charlie.... sorry Mac4Lyfe!

- Greg A

[Mac4Lyfe]

No problem. That name might carry :-)

Happy Holidays.

Whoops, I just looked back and noticed that you weren't Charlie.... sorry Mac4Lyfe!

- Greg A

[HiloDon]

Hi Mac4Lyfe,

I've been thinking about your exposure issue. With Hyperstar on the C11 you're at F2.0. With the LSX2 attached you have one of the fastest imaging combos made. Greg is right that the sky glow will at some point start washing out your images. Hopefully, Nytecam will see your post and comment. He is the man when it comes to EAA in light polluted skies. I think he starts getting whiteout at one minute. But, he's at F3.3 most of the time. You're faster.

Please consider doing some narrow band Ha. The filter will eliminate virtually all light pollution. It will only work on emission nebulae, but there are plenty out there and they're beautiful. It also only works well with mono cams without the Bayer mask. You need more exposure, but at F2 it still won't be long. I would love to see what that C11 with Hyperstar can do in NB Ha. Greg, I think you only have a color LS, but if you have a mono, the C8 Hyperstar should do a great job as well. I look forward to seeing the color results from you guys, too.

Don

[Mac4Lyfe]

Thanks Don.  I have a Ha filter on the way. My only problem is going to be how to mount it. I have the old Hyperstar that doesn't have a filter holder. I'm not sure how I can use the filter as it won't screw onto the LS camera nor on the Hyperstar???

[HiloDon]

Hi Mac,

It looks like the HS has a t thread mount. Scopestuff has a t thread to SCT adapter. Can you use that to connect to a SCT visual back? SS has a nice 2"x2" SCT back that will accept a 2" to 1.25" adapter. You can the use a c mount to 1.25" adapter on the LS and screw the filter on the front. The LS assembly would then slide into the visual back and you can position it to the proper back focus distance which I think is close to 2.5". Does this make sense? What do you use now to get the right spacing?

Hope we can figure this out.

Don

[Paul81]

Hi Mac4Lyfe,

Welcome to the group! Nice set of first images there. I would echo what the others have commented regarding the over exposure, and I would guess it is a factor of the really fast F2 optics. In some ways, thats a nice problem to have! Lol!.

I use an Astronomik CLS filter (its a visual one) in most of my EAA, and I also use some of my other visual filters but the CLS tends to be the most universal. Don has also convinced me to pick up a Ha filter, so I'll be getting one of those at the next UK astro convention in Feb.

Glad you are enjoying the software and are finding it easy to use! 

[Mac4Lyfe]

I emailed Starizona and they said I had an old model Hyperstar that cannot use filters??  Right now I just connect the camera directly to the Hyperstar fitting. If you look at this picture it shows the HS. I normally connect a camera (like the Sammy SCB2000 in the pic) to the small coupler and connect the coupler to the HS. There's not a lot of gap as the coupler is pretty thin but I can get focus pretty easily. I added a filter in the picture but the filter cannot connect to the coupler nor does it connect to the camera without a longer c-mount to 1.25" adapter, so I can't use it??? Can I get filters that can screw into the back of the camera? And then it could screw on the coupler?

It looks like this HS connector is 1.5" not 2" so I can't find anything to connect to it. I may need a machine shop to fabricate a 1.5" to a visual back or 1.5" to 1.25"??

Hi Mac,

It looks like the HS has a t thread mount. Scopestuff has a t thread to SCT adapter. Can you use that to connect to a SCT visual back? SS has a nice 2"x2" SCT back that will accept a 2" to 1.25" adapter. You can the use a c mount to 1.25" adapter on the LS and screw the filter on the front. The LS assembly would then slide into the visual back and you can position it to the proper back focus distance which I think is close to 2.5". Does this make sense? What do you use now to get the right spacing?

Hope we can figure this out.

Don

[HiloDon]

Good Morning, Mac.

I think it's a 42mm (1.65") t thread. I reviewed the Starizona manual and it indicated a backfocus for the C11 of 2.35". I think what I posted yesterday will work. The adapter is simple. A female t thread to male SCT that Scopestuff sells and then a 1.25" visual back that will position the LS sensor at 2.35" from the HS mounting threads. You probably have a visual back, but Scopestuff sells them, too. Once you have the 1.25" holder you can just use a c mount nosepiece on the LS that will accept 1.25" filters.

Do you have a t mount for a DSLR? That should screw onto your HS to see if it's a t mount thread.

Don