Would like to get into photography

[SlyReaper]

I've recently bought a 5 inch newtonian reflector, and have been getting some fantastic images with it.  Would love to share those images, but not sure where to start.  I'm told you can modify webcams to use with telescopes, and I wonder if anyone can point me in the right direction for buying the right camera and adaptors?

I have a little bit of background in image processing at work, so I'd like to try my hand at lucky imaging to convert the low res videos I capture into high res images.  I know the theory and can do the coding... just not sure of the hardware.

[oldpink]

AP is totally different from terrestrial in quite a few aspects

if your going down the webcam route you will be doing mostly planetary work where not all camera's are equal
there are certain ones that are good to mod and others that are useless

a budget would help, you may also want to look at the dedicated camera's like the ZWO ASI range bit more money than a webcam
but the software support is far better and a lot more functionality and control of the camera

[SlyReaper]

I'm well aware astrophotography is much harder than taking holiday snaps on the beach, that's why I'm asking here.  Budget, I haven't really worked out yet, but I'm willing to spend several hundred pounds if I'm convinced it's worth it.  I do not own any cameras, so I'm blank slate as far as that's concerned; since I have to buy a new camera no matter what, I'm free to get the best bang for my buck.  My background is in mathematics and engineering, so I'm not daunted by the technical complexities of this.  Adjustable apertures, shutter speeds, CCD sensitivities, I'm cool with playing around with those things, making mistakes with it and learning. 

Webcams are best for planetary work, you say?  I would like to image DSOs as well, so do you think a DSLR or ones of these ZWO things would be better suited?

[Avocette]

Start by spending £20 of your budget on 'Making Every Photon Count' by Steve Richards (now in a new edition from SGL sponsors FLO). An essential read which answers all your questions in depth and detail.

[SlyReaper]

Sweet, I'll check that out, thanks.

[GuillermoBarrancos]

With a couple hundred pound budget you can look at cheapastrophotography website for a modded DSLR, like the Canon 600D.

That would be a good place to start, next to buying the book Make Every Photon Count. To get going into DSO imaging.

But when it comes to long exposure DSO imaging, the mount is the most important piece of kit!

You need a good stable tracking mount, like the HEQ5 Pro or Advanced VX as recommended minimum.

If you don't have a good mount, then stop, forget about buying a camera and think things over first if this is really what you want.

DSO imaging is a real money pit. Keep that in mind.

Planetary imaging will be cheaper and easier to get into.

[SlyReaper]

So... I can't just slap a motor on my EQ2 mount and call it a day?  My thinking was, even if I don't get the polar alignment quite right, any target will still stay in view long enough to capture several thousand images?  Enough to make lucky imaging work?  I just googled that HEQ5 Pro mount and nearly fainted at the cost.

[oldpink]

So... I can't just slap a motor on my EQ2 mount and call it a day?  My thinking was, even if I don't get the polar alignment quite right, any target will still stay in view long enough to capture several thousand images?  Enough to make lucky imaging work?  I just googled that HEQ5 Pro mount and nearly fainted at the cost.

no for DSO you are aiming for very long exposures sometimes minutes and a lot of them

so you need very accurate tracking, I'm going down the DSLR road till I can afford to upgrade to CCD and a better mount

[GuillermoBarrancos]

I am afraid the EQ2 Mount is definitely not up to the task for long exposure DSO imaging. It´s way too flimsy and unstable and the tracking motors for the EQ2 aren´t the best either.

You can put on the tracking motor Upgrade and just try out some planetary and lunar imaging. As planetary imaging doesn´t require accurate tracking. The motor Upgrade is cheap and you can modify a cheap webcam to get started on low Budget.

There are lot of topics in the DIY Astronomer section about which webcams are best to be modified.

New the HEQ5 Pro ain´t exactly cheap no. But they do come up Second Hand quite often, as there are always People upgrading to heavier Mounts.

So again, try planetary imaging for a while first. As that will at least be within your budget.

[SlyReaper]

no for DSO you are aiming for very long exposures sometimes minutes and a lot of them

so you need very accurate tracking, I'm going down the DSLR road till I can afford to upgrade to CCD and a better mount

I thought DSLR were CCD cameras?  CCD = charge coupled device?  DSLRs use those, right?

I wouldn't have thought minutes-long exposures would be a problem even for a basic motorised equatorial mount?  I don't see it as a problem if the image drifts across the field of view, because you can always shift the center-of-gravity of each frame back to the center in post-production?

[lensman57]

I've recently bought a 5 inch newtonian reflector, and have been getting some fantastic images with it.  Would love to share those images, but not sure where to start.  I'm told you can modify webcams to use with telescopes, and I wonder if anyone can point me in the right direction for buying the right camera and adaptors?

I have a little bit of background in image processing at work, so I'd like to try my hand at lucky imaging to convert the low res videos I capture into high res images.  I know the theory and can do the coding... just not sure of the hardware.

Hi,

Buy the Book , " Making Every Photon Count". It will answer a lot of the beginners questions and also helps you once you have decided what it is you want to do. Meanwhile have a good read through the "Imaging Deep Sky" , "Planetary Imaging" and  "Image Processing" sections of the forum to get an idea of what equipment is used by the good folks here and what is required.

Regards,

A.G

[GuillermoBarrancos]

I thought DSLR were CCD cameras?  CCD = charge coupled device?  DSLRs use those, right?

I wouldn't have thought minutes-long exposures would be a problem even for a basic motorised equatorial mount?  I don't see it as a problem if the image drifts across the field of view, because you can always shift the center-of-gravity of each frame back to the center in post-production?

No. Some very old DSLR´s used CCD´s, but all current DSLR´s use CMOS sensors.

If the price of the HEQ5 Pro Mount made you already faint, then I strongly advice you "not" to check out dedicated Cooled CCD cameras, as you might not recover. lol.

PS. Drifting is ok when doing planetary imaging, as you record video with fast frames, which you stack later on.

With long exposure DSO imaging you definitely DO NOT want drifting, as you will get star trailing, which basically ruins your exposure.

Like already said, please buy the book and read through it! It´s highly recommended and it will give you a good idea about DSO imaging.

[Digz]

But what if the image drifts across the field of view during exposure? Then you have a ruined sub.

DSOs tend to feint on the whole therefore require several minutes if exposure and several stacked exposures to get any detail. Then you add the complexities of using a DSLR with noise, amp glow and sensitivity, together with trying to get accurate polar alignment, good tracking and (eventually) guiding - a steep learning curve.

Don't get me wrong, people can get decent images with a modest setup but don't expect anything near Hubble like quality shots without spending a small fortune.

[oldpink]

I thought DSLR were CCD cameras?  CCD = charge coupled device?  DSLRs use those, right?

I wouldn't have thought minutes-long exposures would be a problem even for a basic motorised equatorial mount?  I don't see it as a problem if the image drifts across the field of view, because you can always shift the center-of-gravity of each frame back to the center in post-production?

your completely missing the point

you don't want any movement in your image so you have to track the target very accurately and take as long an exposure as you can without any star trails

normally this is done using a second scope with another camera to track a single star and correct the alignment

all of this requires a laptop and software to do each process

like you said its not holiday snaps

[SlyReaper]

Okay, I hadn't thought of that.  I'd been assuming that even with DSOs, each individual exposure would be short enough not to cause any streaking.  Guess I'll stick to planets for the time being.

[oldpink]

planets you can do with a webcam or a DSLR that can do livescreen like the Canon ones and using software like BYEOS or APT

with a webcam you can do planets using firecapture or sharpcap video capture software
but as stated some cameras work better than others, dedicated Astro cams have the edge on modded webcams due to drivers and software tailored to work with them

[GuillermoBarrancos]

Okay, I hadn't thought of that.  I'd been assuming that even with DSOs, each individual exposure would be short enough not to cause any streaking.  Guess I'll stick to planets for the time being.

No. With DSO imaging you take single long exposures... sometimes up to 10, 15 or even 20 minutes for very faint objects.

Some of the final images you see contain over 24 hours of total data, combining all these long single exposures.

With planetary imaging you record live video at a high framerate (30 fps average, depending on camera specs). Then you stack each individual frame for a final image.

That´s why planetary imaging is much more forgiving when it comes to the tracking accuracy of the Mount.

[barkis]

SlyReaper.

Best thing I can suggest, is to clear your mind of the pre concieved notions you have regarding long exposure, and by necessity,  guided  computer  astrophotography,

and begin with a blank canvas. Carefully heed all the advice you receive, especially regarding the equipment that will best suit the projects you set for yourself.

Conventional photography you may well be expert at, but AP. is a totally different animal, and some of the best and capable who practice it, reside on this forum.

You are not obliged to follow this advice, but you will stand more than a good chance of succeeding if you do.

I wish you the very best of luck in your endeavour.

Ron.

[Leveye]

Polar alignment, leveling and balance are crucial for success. Don't cut corners on a tracking mount. It's gear accuracy and low PE is of the utmost priority to get good usable images. Spend at least 1K on it or you're going to be disappointed no matter what camera and scope you use. Then get a great auto guiding system. Orion makes a few nice packages.

[Carina Lass]

My mount has an instruction manual that is 44 pages long - each page a detailed step by step rule book that cannot be sidestepped.

The guide camera has a book about 20 pages - the guide programme similar.

The camera is a Canon - every day piece of gear.

The OTA a 2 metre long telephoto lens that can be held within constraints of a few seconds of arc (1/3600 of a degree) for several minutes at a time. 50% of these photos don't work because it moves no more than .05 of a degree

The guide camera picks up movement of .144 of a pixel before it starts to correct the direction the OTA is pointing.

Most photography is work out how much light and a nice frame (alterable later if you have enough detail ) and focus.

I have a programme to help me focus. Stars are a point of light, if they become a disk, they look bloated and soft.

I hope by now you are starting to get an idea of the complexity of the hobby and why we work at it. Its a form of psychotic juggling in the dark.

[Carina Lass]

here's my rig

[Steve91]

Hi I'm very new here and have only been in to astro for a month or so now.

I already had a DSLR which was handy, but as I only have an alt az mount I found it relatively hard to image dso that I thought I'd go down the Web cam route just to get a real taste of things.

I managed to purchase an X box webcam from Game in town for a whole £3 and have actually took some pictures of Jupiter, Mars and the moon. All pretty sharp and fairly easy to do.

I'm going to buy every photon counts but the webcam is the best thing i bought to help me along my way

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[SlyReaper]

Okay, I've bought a cheapo webcam, gouged out its lens and made an impromptu telescope adaptor out of a piece of card.  I've captured a daytime video of a nearby radio tower on the hill through the telescope to test it out.  The image was good and wibbly wobbly, perfect for testing out Registax... except Registax refuses to load my .avi file.  It doesn't throw up any errors, and it's showing the correct number of frames, but it's not showing any image.  Any ideas what might be going wrong?

[Cornelius Varley]

Registax prefers an older version of the AVI format. Download VirtualDub and run the AVI through that and then save it as an old format AVI.

[SlyReaper]

That fixed it, thanks.  Why doesn't Registax like normal AVIs?