Scammers on uk astro buy & sell

[buzzc150]

I put a couple wanted posts on Uk Astronomy Buy & Sell recently for a V3 GOTO synscan handset. I received several replies mostly from outside the UK which I deleted. One or two were from people in the UK but something about their reply wasn't quite right. How can you tell genuine sellers on this site ?

Buzz

[JB80]

One thing that people should use more of on ABS is the option to include your username from various forums, I would feel more comfortable knowing someone was a longstanding member of a forum and has a reputation that way.

Also I find asking for a phone number quickly thins the herd.

I think you just have to use a bit of common sense though, if something sounds dodgy then treat it as so, payments like western union are always an alarm bell(although I must admit to paying via that method when asked by a seller).

If they are serious then they will do things for you too like send pictures with todays paper and such and photograph the packaging, they could even let you arrange a courier so you would know that it was picked up like described.

There a few things like that you can ask for at least, it's your money so understandably you are careful with.

Shame though not to consider overseas buyers, we are not all scammers but it's also understandable since it has been ruined for us by a few criminals and it is hard to tell without prior knowledge.

[TCWORLD]

If something feels too good to be true, it probably is.

You can usually tell a genuine seller by how they communicate. Never be afraid to ask them about themselves - what were they doing with the item before, why are they selling it - I've found most people in the astro community to be a nice bunch so I see no reason why they would be reluctant to answer such questions.

For high value items, try and get some history of them. I bought a Moonlight focuser of AstroBuySell (posted a wanted ad). I got a response from a guy in Portugal and he was very polite, told me about why he got the focuser and why he was selling it. He also provided me photos of the item with a receipt from when he himself purchased the item - something like that goes a long way to reassuring you that it is genuine. My focuser arrived 4 days later .

[rory]

Slightest doubt. , walk away. Ask for pictures of item they have next to the days paper or something along those lines . Genuine people will be fine with this. Ask questions that most astronomers would know about the particular item they offer.

Luckily these scum bags are few, just be vigilant and trust your gut feeling .

[leelee970]

Jarrod is right, ask for a phone number. Ask for a photo of the item with the person next to it. Most people now have digital camera/phones etc.

 

I once asked a seller (non Astro related item) to take a photo of the item with a tin of bake beans next to it - they did the request, and both parties were happy.

Lee

[Ant]

I agree you need to be careful. 

I sold a C9.25 to a guy in Sweden a few years ago. He didn't know me from Adam or vice versa. But he sent the money before I sent the scope. So trades with buyers abroad can and does go smoothly.

He did ask for some specific pictures showing the item and packaging - i guess that was his way of making sure I had the item I was selling.  

Ant

[L8-Nite]

One thing that people should use more of on ABS is the option to include your username from various forums, I would feel more comfortable knowing someone was a longstanding member of a forum and has a reputation that way.  ...............

I rarely make a major purchase sight unseen, and don't mind taking a road trip of a couple hundred miles for something special; however, I do look at forum members reputation when considering an item.  

[Lorne]

Jarrod is right, ask for a phone number. Ask for a photo of the item with the person next to it. Most people now have digital camera/phones etc.

 

I once asked a seller (non Astro related item) to take a photo of the item with a tin of bake beans next to it - they did the request, and both parties were happy.

Lee

Baked beans? A non astro item!! That's sacrilege..... everyone knows that baked beans are the standard unit of comparison when

Photographs of large 2" eyepiece are being taken!!!

[astro mick]

Having been scammed,although at the time I did,nt know it,we started to communicate via private emails,which I suppose is normal.Realising the scam,about a week later,i traced his email address,which of course was totally different to where he said he was.

The long and the short he got scared,and returned my funds.

Maybe I got lucky.

In answer to your question,if your paying out a lot of money,ask for a phone number,and also ask for photo,s taken at different angles of the article,because a lot of scammers just search the web for a convenient photo.

If you get a number,ring the person up,you get a good idea if the person is genuine,because you usually spend a fair bit of time talking Astronomy.

If they are selling they wont mind a call.

Finally when paying by paypal,NEVER SEND as Gift,or relations,as your not protected.

Hope this helps.

Mick.

[JB80]

I rarely make a major purchase sight unseen, and don't mind taking a road trip of a couple hundred miles for something special; however, I do look at forum members reputation when considering an item.  

That's a fair call but it's not always easy to do that especially if distance is involved. That said for that reason I almost weekly miss out on a scope that I want in the UK because of the distance, I'd like to see it and pick it up. It's not that I don't trust the sellers but I certainly don't trust the courier companies and it would be pricey to ship a big SCT down this way.

[brantuk]

"I once asked a seller (non Astro related item) to take a photo of the item with a tin of bake beans next to it - they did the request, and both parties were happy"

I did that once and they sent me the baked beans. lol

Seriously though - first thing to do is exhaust the possibilities of getting it in the UK, or buying from a well known and reputable overseas retailer, or a well known forum member (maybe ex-pat) that you're familiar with.

Never buy or sell blind nor impart bank details to an overseas seller without doing lots of checks first. You need to be 100% sure and that must start with a phone call from them (or you) and a good long chat about the item and them. They should have no hesitation telling you where they live and work, or if they have relatives you can check with in the UK, and maybe something unique and personal that you can verify.

If they're genuine they will understand the need for references and they won't object in the least. But do try and get it in the UK first, if you can - at least you'll know where they are if you end up having to "send the boys round" lol.

[Stu]

Have a good look through the list of known scams and dodgy email addresses which are published on AstroBuy&Sell.

I nearly fell for a similar scam. I placed a wanted ad for an Orion Optics f8 200mm scope. Sure enough, someone from Sweden got in touch with exactly what I was after. There was, however, just something in the tone of their messages which I didn't like so I was very cautious. The guy got offended, and even sent a picture supposedly of himself and two children to prove his trustyworthiness!

I finally checked the scam list, and sure enough, his email address and similar scams were on there. I ran away from it very quickly and unfortunately now do not normally place wanted ads any more.

I believe they are the highest risk transactions because the scammer knows what you want and can more easily draw you in.

Cheers,

Stu

[Peter Drew]

All good advice, unfortunately if the price is right and it is a popular item, if you begin by asking a lot of pertinent questions, the seller often chooses the first caller who is prepared to chance it. If it's an item I really want I offer to buy it immediately, subsequent correspondence can soon reveal problems. You are on "safer ground" up to a point with higher value items as there is usually less competition allowing more time for negotiations.

[tekkydave]

A common scam to watch out for if you are selling items, especially via ebay/paypal:  You have arranged for the purchaser to pay via paypal and you send the item via the post. But they have given you a false address and the item comes back to you as undelivered. All ok so far. The purchaser then contacts you and manages to get you to give them your phone number. They then phone you and say "I am in the area can I come and collect the item". They come to your house and take the item away without paying, saying "The money will come through paypal as already arranged". They get home and cancel the payment. You are stuffed and have no way of getting the money from paypal as you have no proof of posting or delivery. You are also unable to contact them as you do not have their real address or contact details. My father got stung with this one. If anyone arranges to collect an item from you in person ALWAYS make them pay for the item before letting them take it. It is then their problem to cancel the payment.

[michaelmorris]

I echo much of the advice given above.  It's quite simple really, if in any doubt, just walk away from the deal.  If the other party gets offended by you asking 'awkward' questions or you insisting that cheques clear before sending goods, that's their problem, not yours.

I ALWAYS pay using Paypal and never as a paypal gift.  If necessary, be prepared to add 3% to the amount you send to cover the seller's paypal fees.  This way you have the possibility of requesting a charge back via paypal if the deal goes sour.  If someone is paying by cheque, never send the goods until you have confirmed with your bank that the cheque has actually cleared.

[michaelmorris]

A common scam to watch out for if you are selling items, especially via ebay/paypal:  You have arranged for the purchaser to pay via paypal and you send the item via the post. But they have given you a false address and the item comes back to you as undelivered. All ok so far. The purchaser then contacts you and manages to get you to give them your phone number. They then phone you and say "I am in the area can I come and collect the item". They come to your house and take the item away without paying, saying "The money will come through paypal as already arranged". They get home and cancel the payment. You are stuffed and have no way of getting the money from paypal as you have no proof of posting or delivery. You are also unable to contact them as you do not have their real address or contact details. My father got stung with this one. If anyone arranges to collect an item from you in person ALWAYS make them pay for the item before letting them take it. It is then their problem to cancel the payment.

If a buyer is collecting something, it's either cash on collection or they pay in advance.  Either way, they sign a receipt to confirm they have collected the item.

[Adrian Condon]

Hi,

If a person wants to collect, it's cash only, a signed receipt and a photo of the collector, as far as I am concerned.

PayPal is not as secure as cash!

To deal with real scammers try selling/buying handbags, there are any number fakes our there.

You can send them a real bag, they don't want it, so they return a fake bag and Paypal refunds them.

We have had good experience on Gumtree were the buyers have paid cash on collection.

Fortunately, the vast majority of eBayers are honest and a pleasure to do business with.

Happy buying and selling.

Cheers

Adrian

[rory]

Having been scammed,although at the time I did,nt know it,we started to communicate via private emails,which I suppose is normal.Realising the scam,about a week later,i traced his email address,which of course was totally different to where he said he was.

The long and the short he got scared,and returned my funds.

Maybe I got lucky.

In answer to your question,if your paying out a lot of money,ask for a phone number,and also ask for photo,s taken at different angles of the article,because a lot of scammers just search the web for a convenient photo.

If you get a number,ring the person up,you get a good idea if the person is genuine,because you usually spend a fair bit of time talking Astronomy.

If they are selling they wont mind a call.

Finally when paying by paypal,NEVER SEND as Gift,or relations,as your not protected.

Hope this helps.

Mick.

That strikes similar to my scam encounter . There were a whole group of us here on sgl who were sold the same piece of equipment from a scammer. What he had not bargained on was the fact that although it wasn't a very expensive transaction ( about £ 60 /70 ) we wouldn't let it lie. He made a few errors and left a trail , we had the police involved and his family got drawn in to the whole saga . We all got refunded eventually and had a happy ending .

Worst part was that a few weeks later he tried a similar scam again , fortunately he was to clueless to be a successful thief and was duly banned from buy and sell as well as the sgl forums.

[rory]

And the above advice is spot on . If you don't know the person Never pay as GIFT. You really are up against a brick wall if things go nipples northwards. Just add the 3 or 4% yourself and pay as goods / services.

[Pete Presland]

Only been properly stung once and that was from a uk seller. I bought a field flattener from a guy in south africa against my better judgement but everything went very well, i am not going to let the fraudsters put me off. You just have to tread carefully and go with your instincts.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[tekkydave]

If a buyer is collecting something, it's either cash on collection or they pay in advance.  Either way, they sign a receipt to confirm they have collected the item.

Good advice. I think my father's mistake was being too trusting. Theives are very convincing people sometimes and prey on those with a trusting nature or older people who are just not aware of how devious they can be. I have tried to educate him about these things but he is the sort of trusting person they take advantage of. If a complete stranger asks to come round and look at something he is selling he will give them the address then tell them "No not today we are going on holiday for a week so won't be here"

[ronin]

I tend to walk away from an advert unless the persons location is given, at least to a fair approximation, say the county. That way I can decide if I want to consider it. Basically I will drive to get the item.

There is a lot of for sales here that I leave for that same reason, no idea where the person is located in included in the "for sale" ad. Some I recognise and/or can find out but more I just leave.

Will say never had a problem with ABSUK, have had a long time ago with a seller on SGL - never got the items.

[reddoss]

I bought my CCD camera from someone on ABSUK.  We talked on the phone first and it was so obvious to me he was  genuine as his knowledge of  astro-imaging and astronomy was very good indeed.

[MattGoo]

I have bought and sold a fair few items on AB&S, thankfully never had any go wrong. Walked away from some deals on the basis that they either sounded too good to be true or just a gut feeling of dodgy.

Plenty of good advice given in the above posts, stick to that and you shouldn't have any issues.

[Davey-T]

I lent something to a (at the time) forum member, paid the postage, about £4.00, never got it back and they disappeared from the forum shortly after, had their address but couldn't be bothered to go and see if they still lived there as it was only worth about £20.00 and would have cost more than that in petrol to get there.

Dave