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Mr Q

What's Inbetween "Beginner" And "Experienced" ?

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Shania Twain was never overly impressed by "Rocket Scientists" anyway? :D

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqYp1jpzKCk

Aside: the front row "proto-misandrists" are (statistically) unlikely to get a Ph.D in Astronomy...

Particle Physics etc. lol. C'mon guys / gals, we'd all rather *be* Maggie A-P or Chris L, right? :p

On the other hand SGL is a lot *bigger* now. Sadly, I do vaguely begin to question whether I want to risk someone "coming out of the woodwork" to sneer at my cordwangle equipment or infer my advice is "rubbish" now? (Just a minor gripe!) Fortunately, SGL doesn't yet have the "Bell curve theorists" <sigh> or the "Friends of Ted Nugent" (lol!) - As elsewhere. In fairness most of those latter rarely posted anything on the subject of Astronomy. But perhaps therein lies a clue... ;)

But this in the InterWeb? I've yet to meet a real life Astronomer who I couldn't "get on with"... :)

Edited by Macavity

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There are so many aspects to this "hobby". And with each aspect there are tons of subdivisions. 

For me personally, the reason I am a member of this site is the fact there are differences in answers. Some from very the most novice visual observers and some from the most experienced imaging pros. (and I use the term "pro" loosely  :smiley:.

On a rare occasion I try to answer a question posted by others but only when it is something I have recently dealt with in the field and usually with a piece of equipment I am familiar with.

9 times out of 10 someone else comes along with a better solution or suggestion and not only do I not feel bad about what I had posted, I am almost glad as I see it from another point of view and learn something from it.

Thats life......no one can know everything but don't let it put you off....the main thing is not to BS anyone.

The good thing here is if you are wrong you are normally corrected in a polite way.

I'm a firm believer in learning from mistakes, they tend to stick better in the ol grey cells.

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I personally don't see a need for categorisation, most of the time your question is indicative of your experience anyway.

I see SQL as a sort of virtual room where like minded people, who share a common interest, come to chew the fat, learn and have a bit of fun when waiting for clouds to pass. :)

I'm in the "it ain't broke" camp

But then again, what do I know? I'm just a noob :D

  • Like 4

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I can see how that when you view a post you can get a grip of what type of experience the poster has.

But as a total newbie with a new scope not so long ago, I found myself copying and pasting abbreviations and terms faster than google could find them!

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   Wow, so many sensitive people out there when it comes to responding to a subject that even hints of any controversy :shocked:

How can you say such a thing?!.... How insensitive rant, rave, etc..etc... :laugh:

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Thought provoking thread. The fact that it hasn't degenerated to a slanging match says a lot for the standard of the forums and its members.

In my experience the majority of responses to questions have been answered by people who had something to say and were trying to be helpful.

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It's all relative I think. I consider myself a newbie compared with some of the members on here and rightly so. Many will have forgotten more than I currently know.  E.g. I have always struggled in the past to find M81/82 easily as I used the often recommended double hop from the Phecda to Dubhe and the same again. At a star party a couple of years ago Stu showed me a different route and I now find it / them in seconds.

To someone that's new to the hobby though, watching me find old and new DSOs manually with the dob in seconds or less than a minute with telrad, RACI and small star map book might be amazed thinking me some sort of genius with decades of experience (I am not!).

In principle it's a good idea but hopefully the friendly nature of most members will mean that upsetting someone on assuming they know less than you (and offerring a simplistic answer to a problem) is something that's going to be rare and easily overcome by good manners. I tend to just give the answer I feel is right regardless of experience.

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Nothing "controversial" about it.

It's daft, impractical and not necessary :grin: (and before you get upset - I mean the idea, not you! :tongue: )

It is simply down to someone asking for help and advice to provide as much information pertinent to his/her particular enquiry to get best possible advice/answer, and that might be different depending on subject. One is not experienced and/or knowledgeable in everything, so one is usually a "beginner"when asking a question (regardless of post count or experience in many other areas).

It seems to me like a re-run of collimation question :grin:

Then you were upset that nobody listened to good advice, now you seem to be upset that people make it difficult to give good advice, because it's not clear how experienced they are...

I'd say chill out - if they ask stupid questions or don't give enough information... just ignore them :grin:

   No, I'm not angry or upset about the subject. In fact, from all the replies, I have learned something.

  My goal was to simply find a way to make asking/answering questions a little easier but it seems there is no useful answer to this "problem". Besides, no forum site is perfect - there is always room for improvement even if its just minor ones. I don't see any harm in trying.

   This IS a great forum site and members should be able to make suggestions that they (even though later they discover these were not useful) feel might make it better in some way.

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Nothing "controversial" about it.

It's daft, impractical and not necessary :grin: (and before you get upset - I mean the idea, not you! :tongue: )

It is simply down to someone asking for help and advice to provide as much information pertinent to his/her particular enquiry to get best possible advice/answer, and that might be different depending on subject. One is not experienced and/or knowledgeable in everything, so one is usually a "beginner"when asking a question (regardless of post count or experience in many other areas).

It seems to me like a re-run of collimation question :grin:

Then you were upset that nobody listened to good advice, now you seem to be upset that people make it difficult to give good advice, because it's not clear how experienced they are...

I'd say chill out - if they ask stupid questions or don't give enough information... just ignore them :grin:

Love that some people can be insulting and deem it acceptable because they've added the odd smiley here and there. and before someone says that it was the idea that was stupid, a man/woman IS the sum of his ideas.

Mr Q started a thread to get peoples opinions, not to be attacked.

why do you fel it nessecary to bring up a closed thread? is it just another dig at Mr Q?

sometimes I wonder just how friendly some of the poeple on this forum are

woops...forgot the smiley :D:);).

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We do have our 'like this' button. When someone posts useful advice, they get a 'like'. These are independent of post count, or number of years membership, and are a direct feedback from other members about that persons posting history and 'contribution value' to the community. Mouse over someone's username to see how many 'likes' they have been given :D

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I am one of those who have posted a few times without being an expert on anything. A lot of new people have the same problems and consequently the same questions get asked. I don't mind as it gives people like me a chance to contribute and give back a little for what i have received from here and i feel it would be a loss if people like me (those who don't consider themselves  experts) were discouraged from posting because answers should be answered by experts. besides which it puts a lot more work on the experts shoulders.

As to new abbreviations and new titles for new members I don't feel it necessary, it can be hard enough for people to come and ask strangers for help with something without rubbing their noses in it (not that this is I feel the op's intention) So I am in the camp of if it aint broke, I like the friendliness of the forum and hadn't realised until this thread came up that there was a problem. i am still not convinced now. forgot to add that anybody who remains in this forum for more than a week soon finds out who the experts are and give weight accordingly

Edited by rowan46
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Not sure what to suggest. Moonshane always had a nice signature I always wanted to steal, but since he had it already I couldn't. Once a novice always a novice,  that's me :D

Problem is I may be of some help getting someone stared in visual observing, give some advice, relatively speaking I may have some expertise, but for an experienced member who has been at it much longer than I've been I am novice, so I don't have anything to tell them I suspect.  

A combination of equipment owned and targets observed is only a small indicator in a signature to some degree, it is useful, but again, it only says so much, some like to race through targets, some use GOTO, others do it in a more timely manner and like finding stuff, some own loads of eyepieces and scopes because they can and have the cash to afford it, but nothing is scaled for a better a word and  easily quantifiable in a world of social behaviour.

I like the way things are to be honest an never felt a need something should change. In the end of the day, with enough reading around, the information can be found if needed, anyone can form their own opinion as to how reliable that information is to satisfy themselves.

Edited by AlexB67

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   Auspom - Don't worry, I keep my insult suit of armor handy for any attacks :grin:  Actually, it was his reply to my (OP) question, not to me personally. In fact, I now see that my OP question has some plus and minus qualities to it. Well, how can we learn without asking questions - good or bad? :rolleyes:

   As for the thread, it has produced a lot of "flavorful" responses and I hope others, as myself, are learning from it.

   :grin::laugh::smiley::grin::laugh::smiley:  ....hey, that does feel good :eek:

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When I became interested in astronomy I lurked here for a few weeks - and several things struck me:

- That everyone is helpful and there's a delightful lack of trolling. 

- That people always try to answer questions in a helpful manner

- … and on the occasions that someone gets it wrong they're usually gently corrected in short order, with a smile

- The sum total experience of people on the forum is gobsmacking.

In short, the people and advice seemed open and reliable, and I had good advice when starting from 'experienced' and 'beginner' members. I don't think labels would help things. I certainly wouldn't want to be a "Grade 3 Astronomer", though now I think about it "Artful Nudger" is a label I could live with.

And you can set your own labels on the left in your profile - I think mine sums up my approach to astronomy nicely.

Enjoyed reading your post, Andy.   :)

Edited by Beulah

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 forgot to add that anybody who remains in this forum for more than a week soon finds out who the experts are and give weight accordingly

Couldn't agree more.

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There is this stellar evolution thing that gets attached to your 'name'.... maybe that could do?

I post just to be a red giant one day... though my wife sometimes says I have reached that state already!

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There is an old zen philosophy based on the "beginners mind". That place where, as a beginner, your mind is open and welcoming to all sources of information being neither judgemental nor affirmative. I take this philosophy with me through everything I do, even those areas of my life where others earlier in their journey would consider me a relative expert. To coin a well known phrase from a film, " we don't no stinking badges " :-)

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   It appears there are pros and cons to the (OP) question and perhaps enough opinions have been expressed to show me that perhaps there is no benefit to my idea, at least from reading all the responses.

   Well, I'm satisfied with the results and if a MOD thinks the thread has run its useful life, that's OK with me. If so, thanks to all who responded. Like some ideas, they seem good (or bad) in thought but when put to practice, maybe not so. Better to try and fail than not try at all :rolleyes:

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 " It appears there are pros and cons to the (OP) question and perhaps enough opinions have been expressed to show me that perhaps there is no benefit to my idea "

You could say that ... though the Cons outweigh the Pros several times over I would say , I saw no support for your idea ... !

And now that most of the replies to the question are totally against your proposal you want the powers that be to draw a line under it , might be misconstrued as a somewhat immature reaction ... ?

I guess the rest of us are happy with the results too , and happy with the way the forum is set up and conducted ...  :rolleyes:

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 " It appears there are pros and cons to the (OP) question and perhaps enough opinions have been expressed to show me that perhaps there is no benefit to my idea "

You could say that ... though the Cons outweigh the Pros several times over I would say , I saw no support for your idea ... !

And now that most of the replies to the question are totally against your proposal you want the powers that be to draw a line under it , might be misconstrued as a somewhat immature reaction ... ?

I guess the rest of us are happy with the results too , and happy with the way the forum is set up and conducted ...  :rolleyes:

Mr Q has clearly taken on board the posts made in the thread, no need to rub it in  :police:

I don't see any reason for the thread to be locked though.

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