New Supernova in M82

[rory]

No, not ridiculous, in fact the two most recent supernovae in the Milky Way were not visually observed, namely Cassiopeia A around 1680 and another object which should have appeared around 1870. Both radio-emitting remnants have since been discovered but the visual light was presumably blocked by vast clouds of dust at the time.

Interesting , thanks for that.

[melsky]

I grabbed a shot of it last night with my 300mm lens and Astrotrac, it was very easy to see even on a 15 second exposure.

Mel

[SteveOD]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I called University College London about their claims to be the first to spot the M82 SN @ 19:20gmt January 21st. Not expecting a reply back from them about the fact that there had been many observations prior to this time stamp, I did indeed receive a reply from them......

Dear Steve,

I have had a quick word with Steve Fossey. This is the gist of what he said:

We've heard reports of amateur observations of it, which are perfectly plausible given that the supernova is easily observed even with amateur telescopes - and it's great that this has been such an opportunity for amateurs to make a significant contribution to astronomy. However there were no reports to the IAU prior to ours. It's not unusual for pre-discovery images to be found with hindsight after a formal report is made. We would not have claimed the discovery as Fossey's without the IAU telegram citing Fossey as the discoverer. Until the IAU update, our statement claimed only that we were among the first.

Regards,

Oli

.........

Ach maybe I'm a bit bored and tetchy after having little sleep and actually doesn't matter that much at all, but it did state in his original statement that "There were no online reports of any prior discoveries of this object, so it seemed clear that this was a new transient source"

I guess he's right in a way, however....Itagaki's observations starting on January 14 clearly contradict this claim, in so much as it was Itagaki that is credited to the last few supernova but one with the IUA.

Does it matter?. Perhaps not, but if from the study of the M82 SN we can possibly define the how the universe will end, the unlocking of the mysteries of dark matter and neutrinos, and other Nobel Prize winning achievements, then surely it should be accredited to the person who made the first official obvervations and not to some jumped up university that has a bigger faster media engine on their bandwagon.

Just saying......

[Nigele2]

Tiny clouds forming here in Hampshire but more clear than cloud.  Just a chance.  Frac going out to aclimatise.  

But tx everyone who has posted images.  Gives me a much better chance of finding it.  Fingers crossed here and good luck to everyone 

[John]

Tiny clouds forming here in Hampshire but more clear than cloud.  Just a chance.  Frac going out to aclimatise.  

But tx everyone who has posted images.  Gives me a much better chance of finding it.  Fingers crossed here and good luck to everyone 

Is the frac the 60mm one in your signature ?.

If so, I think your Pentaflex 130 might make spotting it somewhat easier.

[jabeoo1]

Was this found by an amateur astronomer?

From http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/highlights/Bright-Supernova-in-M82-241477661.html

A Flukey Find

The first people to recognize the supernova were a group of students — Ben Cooke, Tom Wright, Matthew Wilde and Guy Pollack, assisted by teaching fellow Stephen J. Fossey — taking a quick image at the University College London Observatory (within the London city limits!) on the evening of January 21st at 19:20 UT.

"The discovery was a fluke," says a university press release "— a 10-minute telescope workshop for undergraduate students that led to a global scramble to acquire confirming images and spectra.

" 'The weather was closing in, with increasing cloud,” Fossey says, 'so instead of the planned practical astronomy class, I gave the students an introductory demonstration of how to use the CCD camera on one of the observatory’s automated 0.35-meter telescopes.'

"The students chose M82, a bright and photogenic galaxy, as their target, as it was in one of the shrinking patches of clear sky. While adjusting the telescope’s position, Fossey noticed a star overlaid on the galaxy which he did not recognise from previous observations.

"They inspected online archive images of the galaxy, and it became apparent that there was indeed a new starlike object in M82. With clouds closing in, they switched to taking a rapid series of 1- and 2-minute exposures through different colour filters to check that the object persisted, and to be able to measure its brightness and colour."

The original press release, and the BBC repeating it, claimed that this is the nearest supernova since Supernova 1987A in the Large Magellanic Cloud. In fact SN 1993J in M81 was at essentially the same distance within the uncertainties, and two subsequent supernovae, SN 2004am and SN 2008iz (an obscured radio supernova), occurred within M82 itself.

[SnakeyJ]

"The discovery was a fluke," says a university press release "— a 10-minute telescope workshop for undergraduate students that led to a global scramble to acquire confirming images and spectra.

Wonderful start for those young under graduates and congratulations to Stephen Fossey for recognising and recording it.

[goodricke1]

ahahahaha this is absolutely hilarious, they have the SN live and don't recognize a new star is right there on the image

[goodricke1]

sorry the video doesn't seem to start at the right point, you'll have to go to 21.36

[Bathurst]

Just saw it, my first SuperNova took me a while to find M82 but once I saw the other galaxy nearby I knew I was on it, saw the "SN" in the middle of the galaxy, sooo exciting!

Need to start logging my viewing session down, can anyone recommend a decent Astronomy Logger Software if such a thing exists? thanks

[Davey-T]

Nice interview with the discoverers on BBC News now.

Dave

[SteveOD]

It's classic huh, "there is no supernova as we know in m82" whilst looking directly at it. Doh!!! Lol

On mentioning the fact that myself and many others were tuned into the virtual star party to Dr. Fossey at UCL, and also re iterating that even prior to this many astronomers started observing the M82 SN, sadly fell on deaf ears I'm afraid.

UCL first started observing some six days after the initial discovery, 'twas solely due to UCL's superb contacts within the IUA and observatories across the globe that they managed to jump the queue and claim the prize.

Anyhooo, 'least we have something to get our scopes into

P.s I'm wondering how many telescopes across the globe are now trained on m82 lol. And as an after thought, bit of a silly question but...

If many many scopes around the world posted the same astropics to the same server and said server stacked them per say, would this produce an mightily enhanced image with lots of detail or an impossible mess to work with?.

[DaveGarland]

ahahahaha this is absolutely hilarious, they have the SN live and don't recognize a new star is right there on the image :grin:

Aw that poor guy must be kicking himself lol. "It doesn't seem to be a producer of supernovas", AND ITS RIGHT THERE!

[Beulah]

Goodricke, that is a Classic.    Beats Michael Fish in 1987.

[Kirscovitch]

Could you not find the galaxy or not see the Supernova?

There are some star hopping tips in this thread, and this image off the web may help too.

http://stargazerslounge.com/index.php?/topic/200829-M81-and-M82

Stu

Couldn't even find the galaxy. Most likely due the seeing conditions weren't the greatest and the goto wasn't as spot on as normal. 

[Beulah]

Grrr, just dragged ye olde lightbucket outside because the skies were looking promising, but a bank of cloud is hanging over the Bodes area! Murphy's Law! Clear skies beneath, just hoping the cloud will shift a little!

Making a cuppa and am going outside to wait the cloud out....

[IanL]

UCL first started observing some six days after the initial discovery, 'twas solely due to UCL's superb contacts within the IUA and observatories across the globe that they managed to jump the queue and claim the prize.

It is not about 'who you know' at all, it is about knowing what to do, which isn't all that hard.  If you discover a SN (or some other transient phenomena) then you can report it to the IAU as described here:

http://www.cbat.eps.harvard.edu/HowToReportDiscovery.html

If you are the first reporter and your discovery turns out to be genuine, then you will get the credit, professional or amateur.   For it to be a discovery you have to put some effort in to proving your discovery is plausible (e.g. not a known minor planet that happens to be in the frame, or a known variable or an AGN, etc.).  The basic information required is not that hard to produce, and perhaps a fun exercise would be to take one of your images of the SN and do a dry run of learning how to create a report and then compare it to the actual report to see whether it is close.

As for the people who observed or imaged it earlier, as the IAU says pretty much every supernova will turn up in images prior to the discovery date once people go back and look, but hindsight doesn't get you credit for the discovery and nor should it, since imaging or observing something proves nothing unless you put the effort in to demonstrate what you saw was something new.

[Moonshane]

just saw this easily with the 12" dob at about 100x in a two minute cloud window too.

[Stu]

Permission to swear! Blooming heck I got it! :-)<br />

<br />

It's pretty tough with a 4" under Heathrow skies, NELM is about 4.2 tonight. M81 was just about visible in the 80mm finder with averted vision. Took a bit of searching for M82 in the scope, used a 10mm Delos to find it and couldn't see the SN. <br />

<br />

I popped a 7mm XW in and there it was with averted vision. I could see the mag 10.6 star close by more easily so it must be around 11. I tried with a 5mm XW and although M82 was not as defined, the SN was clearer.<br />

<br />

V chuffed, first supernova, and a challenging bit of observing too.<br />

<br />

Stu

[Beulah]

just saw this easily with the 12" dob at about 100x in a two minute cloud window too.

No cigar here.

Clouds thickening.

[Moonshane]

bummer Sam but well done Stu! pretty impressive with the kit and conditions!

[Stu]

bummer Sam but well done Stu! pretty impressive with the kit and conditions!

Thanks Shane. It's one of the more enjoyable things I've done observing wise lately, really challenging but very rewarding to see it.

Stu

[bomberbaz]

Quick sesh and what a great little one too. Got the SN easily, shone sooh brightly even in my kight pollutedcskies. Best result was with the 14mm Delos in terms of both galaxy and SN viewing together, although did slap a 7mmXW in just for the Nova. Spent a while on this before having a mini tour of another range of about 10 other dso's including my first view of M97 and M78 , chuffed as mintballs :-D

[malc-c]

Grabbed a quick 300 second sub tonight

[Tykeviewer]

Had a brief 10 minute window of opportunity this evening and managed to see it.

Set up and aligned my scope (8" SCT) in record time (the joys of StarSense), so my eyes hadn't adjusted to the dark, but still visible.

It boggles the mind a bit to think that this all happened about 12  illion years ago though

Paul