Help with weather/best time to stargaze, for a surprise for my partner!

[missleaaa]

Hi all,

I'm so sorry for this (probably very simple) question, but I need to find out some information for a surprise that I have planned for my boyfriend.

First of all, for Xmas I've bought my boyfriend a telescope - his first one and he has no idea, I can't wait to see his face when he opens it!!

I'm also booking a guesthouse right near northumberland national park - as it recently got voted the best place for stargazing.

http://www.northumberlandnationalpark.org.uk/visiting/thingstodo/stargazing/wherecanigotoenjoydarkskies/darkskydiscoversites

One question - if I commit to a night in a hotel, is there a chance that the weather might stop us being able to see anything? Or with a dark sky and a good telescope, can we be guaranteed to see some stars and then moon quite clearly?

I just thought I'd check before parting with my cash for the guesthouse!

Thanks in advance all,

Lea

[missleaaa]

Also, is there a resource you can point me in the right direction to that will help me see which night is the best for the star gazing... Don't say weather forecast, haha. If that is all I need then I will check that, but if there are any other resources you use it would be quite useful:)

[Paul M]

Hi Lea,

Sadly there is an extremely high risk that any given night will be troubled by cloud if not totally clouded out

If you made a hotel booking at very short notice during a run of the weather being dominated by high pressure then there is a chance of a few consecutive clear nights.

On the down side, even during periods of high pressure influencing the weather there is a high risk of fog.

Don't let anyone tell you that the sky conditions on a given night more than a couple of days away can be forecast. They can't!

As for the other aspect of your post. Be careful of thinking about going anywhere at full moon. The full moon is very bright and will totally wipe out any benefit of going to pristine dark sky site.

Best bets would be before first quarter moon, which sets late evening \\\t worst and allows the true darkness to be appreciated. 

Last quarter or later is good too as it doesn't rise till late evening. This allows some dark sky observing before the moon lights up the sky.

The moon before first quarter and after last quarter is very nice to look at with the scope too. So the best of both worlds.

New moon means there would be no moon visible all night long. Great for dark sky stuff but if conditions are less than perfect at least having the moon either early or late means there will be one easy target.

So if I was going to gamble, the only thing I would do is avoid full moon, its not a great sight in a telescope because of the way the illumination angles of lunar features and it ruins the dark sky.

Just cross your fingers for the weather!

[Christopher Davenport]

Hello,

Welcome to the Lounge.

Nice, surprise, lucky guy. You have chosen a great spot, but unfortunately, it will always come down to the weather on the night.

If you have a smart phone you can download Astro panel for the visability and cloud cover for 5 days before.

(Met Office is usually good and 7Timer for astronomy weather, also check the http://stargazerslounge.com/page/useful_links.html for other resources.)

Hope you have a fun time.

[cantab]

Yes, dense cloud will stop you seeing anything. The Moon and Jupiter are bright enough to "punch through" light cloud though.

[Steve Ward]

Welcome to the forum Lea ... 

It really is a matter of the weather forecast really , there are a few sites about but they are all as accurate/inaccurate as each other , personally I find this one pretty good.

http://www.forecast.co.uk/north-east-england/

Good advice regarding the Moon from Paul , but if you get a clear slot then go for it , cloudless nights are rare enough this time of year ... 

I guess that you'll need to book a little in advance , especially this time of year , so it'll be a bit of a punt as to whether the forecast is kind to you.

It's a dilemma you'll soon get used to in this game ... 

Good luck with the surprise present , he'll love it even if it is cloudy ... 

[mdstuart]

Nice idea. Why not have a plan B in case it is cloudy.

Is there a planetarium anywhere nearby?

Show him a few galaxies using Microsoft World Wide telescope on a laptop..

Nothing compares with the real thing though.

Good luck.

Mark

[missleaaa]

Thanks so much for the detailed reply Paul, and thanks for the other replies too .

If there is a full moon, is that a good thing with regards to observing the moon and not the stars in that case? Or when it is a full moon, is it too bright to be able to look at with a scope? I bought a moon lense for the telescope, not sure if that would help.

I have just downloaded 'scope nights' which is pretty good giving a forecast and if it's a good night for stargazing.

I'm actually getting into this myself, I wonder if this is going to turn into my hobby instead! Haha

Thanks all fingers crossed for clear skies and no fog or clouds.

Is it true that winter is generally best for star gazing, due to the lack of humidity? Not sure where I heard that, or if it is true!

[missleaaa]

It looks like the full moon is on Tuesday 17th December, so I'm safe! Let's hope the weather stays ok!

[Paul M]

Thanks so much for the detailed reply Paul, and thanks for the other replies too .

If there is a full moon, is that a good thing with regards to observing the moon and not the stars in that case? Or when it is a full moon, is it too bright to be able to look at with a scope? I bought a moon lense for the telescope, not sure if that would help.

I have just downloaded 'scope nights' which is pretty good giving a forecast and if it's a good night for stargazing.

I'm actually getting into this myself, I wonder if this is going to turn into my hobby instead! Haha

Thanks all fingers crossed for clear skies and no fog or clouds.

Is it true that winter is generally best for star gazing, due to the lack of humidity? Not sure where I heard that, or if it is true!

The Moon at full isn't the best time to observe it.

Due to the angle of view and illumination it just looks "flat" its very bright too and spoils the dark adaptation of the eyes and lights up the sky. It's not dangerously bright like the sun. It is only reflected light. But it can be dazzling!

The planets like Mars, Jupiter and Saturn are not bothered by moon light. They are very bright them selves and are a great sight even through small scopes.

Like said earlier, don't put too much trust in forecasts and apps. Most, if not all their success is down to chance and apply very little local knowledge or meteorological skill to the basic global weather models that they rely on.

For such a very specialist user like an astronomer "clear sky" is a very specific requirement that very few forecasters understand or allow for. We just don't live in a climate that lends itself to ease of forecasting of local cloud cover. 

[cantab]

For lunar observing, the terrain shows the most detail along the "terminator", the line between lit and unlit portions. That's where mountains and crater rims cast long shadows that help us see them. But when the Moon is full, there's no terminator to see.

[rwilkey]

Hi Lea, welcome to SGL.  My wife and I booked in at the Galloway Astronomy Centre in September and we had three clear nights out of six, but it was well worth it and we had a great time.  Another couple booked in for one night and it wasn't clear.  You just have to take a chance.  The Moon is a great object to look at by the way.  Wintertime is the best time to view because of the cool clear skies and less humidity as you recognise.  We started out in astronomy when I bought my wife a telescope for Christmas, now we are both hooked.

[ronin]

As you are likely to be up there then possibly make arrangements to visit the Keilder Astro Centre. Check if there is anything planned for the not clear nights.

If it is a full moon then if clear the moon is a bit too bright for the dim objects, however I doubt will be the first things you look at.

Don't think you say the scope, only ask as they usually need some sort of set up to be used fully.

Unfortunately the weather often goes in favour of astronomy, there is also the arguement that what the Met Office considers "Clear" is not what we consider Clear. The Met Office also forecast for say the East of England, not the little bit of the East that is overhead.

Best, if you book and go, is to hope for clear weather but have a plan for the not so clear and as said check and visit the Keilder Obs as it is related and you can ask questions and get information - very useful at the start. As they will probably have a few small scopes around you might get guidance on one similar.

If you end up taking it up, then come back and ask some more.

I use http://www.theweatheroutlook.com it seems to be fair on the reports, but none you will find are that great. I look upon them as guidance only. Part of the problem is that a thin high cloud or slight mist can wipe everything out, but to a weather site either are clear, and the high cloud or mist can be local to where you want to be.

One odd thing you will find is a full moon often means a clear sky, the moon washes out to possibility of seeing the dim fuzzy bits and that annoys astronomers even more - "It's clear and I can see nothing, the Moon is too bright!" :grin: :grin: