Ethos 3.7mm or Nagler T6 for planet viewing?

[cyborg421]

Having eliminated a Powermate as an option due to its weight, I am looking for a higher mag eyepiece for my f8 frac.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of the Ethos 3.7mm over the Nagler 3.5mm T6?

It's a quality frac so I can push the magnification.

Simon

[Stu]

Hi Simon,

I have both of these eyepieces and use them in an Astrotech 106mm triplet apo, and a TV76. I've not had that much use out of the 3.7 yet because of the weather but from what I've seen it is a lovely eyepiece.

My main reason for buying it to be honest was wanting a dedicated planetary eyepiece at what I consider to be just about the optimum magnification for good nights, particularly on Jupiter ie x186 in the 106 and x130 in the 76. Sometimes the 3.5 is just that little bit too much.

I think the Ethos edges the t6 on contrast and scatter control, it is a really lovely sharp ep. Despite having more eye relief, I actually find it harder to observe with. To see the full 110 degree field, you need to push your eye right into the lens and I find that, if I don't hold my eye wide open, my eyelashes really get in the way, particularly on the moon. If you are not so bothered about seeing right to the field stop then you can pull back a bit and be more relaxed. I didn't buy it for the fov anyway so this isn't an issue for me.

Given the choice, I would prefer a 3.7mm ep with maybe 72, maximum 82 degree fov and 20mm eye relief eg a 3.7mm Delos, but they don't exist obviously! Having said that, it is quite spectacular seeing the entire lunar disk in a .84 degree field at x130 in the 76. It gives fantastic views, bringing out all the subtle shades of grey visible on the surface.

Not sure if that helps! In summary, I chose it because of the focal length, and for the Ethos image quality, not for the field of view.

Cheers,

Stu

[John]

I used to have a Nagler T6 5mm and 3.5mm and liked them a lot. I've since switched to Pentax XW's in those focal lengths and find them even better - really orthoscopic qualities with a 70m degree field of view and 20mm of eye relief. 

I have the Ethos eyepieces in the 21, 13, 8 and 6mm focal lengths but I've not tried one of the SX's yet. Another cracking candidate would be the new Delos range which offer very similar performance to the Pentax XW's.  

[cyborg421]

Thank you guys.

I have the. 6 and 8mm Delos and I like them a lot so maybe Delos is the way to go.

I have only recently purchased the 13mm Ethos (2nd hand) and I also like that.

I've not tried or bought any of the XW's but people do say good things about them.

Like most people i haven't had a chance to compare such eyepieces because they are expensive which is why SGL is such an awesome site. You get honest opinions and then can make your choice.

I would prefer to make the right choice before I buy.

Do I need a couple of eyepieces (ideally!) below my 6mm Delos?

Thanks foe any replies.

Simon

[John]

Below my 6mm Ethos I have:

5mm Pentax XW

4mm Tele Vue Radian

3.5mm Pentax XW

3mm Tele Vue Radian

The 3mm does not get much use with my 12" dob but all those EP's are very useful with my ED 102mm and 120mm refractors.

You don't say what aperture your F/8 refractor is and that will affect the eyepieces that are useful in it.

[cyborg421]

Sorry , it is 100mm.

Simon

[cyborg421]

Below my 6mm Ethos I have:

5mm Pentax XW

4mm Tele Vue Radian

3.5mm Pentax XW

3mm Tele Vue Radian

The 3mm does not get much use with my 12" dob but all those EP's are very useful with my ED 102mm and 120mm refractors.

You don't say what aperture your F/8 refractor is and that will affect the eyepieces that are useful in it.

Hi John,

You have a range of different manufacturers. Did you choose each eyepiece deliberately or was it a matter of accumulation as finances allowed?

Simon

[John]

I've tried to go for the best quality that I can afford in each case and that have the focal length I want. For a while I just had the Pentax XW's but found that I wanted the options in between them so the Radians seemed a good way to "fill the gaps". Another way to do it would be a Nagler 3-6mm zoom and they are great eyepieces but I prefer a bit more field of view and eye relief.

You don't really need as many as I have but I'm a bit of an "occularholic" if I'm honest about it 

[Stu]

I have a different mix, but along similar lines.

3mm Radian

3.5 t6

3.7mm Ethos

4mm Radian

4.5mm Delos

5mm XW

Probably (definitely!) more than I strictly 'need', but it's good to have options around the high magnifications to cater for different conditions and objects. The Ethos is also a bit of a beast so the nag and radian are more convenient for travelling/grab and go use.

My scope is f6.5, 690mm focal length so needs slightly shorter f/l eps than yours to get to optimum. At 800mm, you probably don't need to go to 3mm, although if the scope is good and conditions very steady then for Mars and double stars it may be useful.

I generally use up to x230 in the 106, not too much to be gained going higher unless it's a very good night.

Stu

[cyborg421]

I notice you both have the same Radians in your arsenal.

What makes Radians so good and why haven't you gone for the complete set?

Simon

[Naemeth]

I'd go for the Nagler 3-6mm Zoom, as long as you can put up with the 10mm eye relief

[John]

I notice you both have the same Radians in your arsenal.

What makes Radians so good and why haven't you gone for the complete set?

Simon

In my case I only "discovered" Radian's relatively recently having already got my longer focal lengths sorted with a Nagler and some Ethos eyepieces. I've tended to stick to the ultra wide designs in the past but I've been really impressed with the Radians I have now. They are very sharp and comfortable to use. I have been tempted occasionally to go for the 4.7 and 3.7 Ethos SX's but I'm not convinced that I would see any performance improvements other than the field of view expansion and the loss of some eye relief. The investment would not be insignificant either !

[Mark in Macc]

I used to have a Nagler T6 5mm and 3.5mm and liked them a lot. I've since switched to Pentax XW's in those focal lengths and find them even better - really orthoscopic qualities with a 70m degree field of view and 20mm of eye relief. 

I have the Ethos eyepieces in the 21, 13, 8 and 6mm focal lengths but I've not tried one of the SX's yet. Another cracking candidate would be the new Delos range which offer very similar performance to the Pentax XW's.

What happened to your ES 20mm 100deg John? I noticed it is not in your sig anymore.

[Space Hopper]

I see you've 'given up' on the Powermate option Simon, but i'd advise you to at least try one out sometime if you get the chance.

Yes they are a bit big and heavy, but they perform beautifully. 

The build quality is fantastic, as we've come to expect with Televue.

I binovue most of the time these days, and use my 19 Pans and 13 Nags as my core eyepieces.

Occasionally though i use my Powermate with them to great effect.

I have the 2x 2", and am seriously thinking of trying the 4x 2" 'bigger brother.

I've even tried the Powermate / N31 combination just to see how my focuser would cope with the size / weight

I'm sure the Ethos 3.7 is fantastic ; i've never looked through one though.

All depends on how much you want to spend......but for me two eyes always wins. 

I know now that i'll never have to fork out crazy money for a set of Ethos / Delos.

Good luck with whatever eyepiece you choose........

[John]

What happened to your ES 20mm 100deg John? I noticed it is not in your sig anymore.

I had to sell it to help fund an Ethos 21mm 

[Stu]

I notice you both have the same Radians in your arsenal.

What makes Radians so good and why haven't you gone for the complete set?

Simon

I guess, like John, I didn't really consider them previously. There is some negative comment on them, largely on Cloudy Nights, and mainly around the supposed 'colour caste' that they have. I've never found this to be an issue and to me they are nice, sharp, comfortable eps to use.

Coming back to my comment about focal lengths, I think much of the design choice is driven by what is available at each focal length. My preference at these shorter focal lengths would be Delos or XW. These are not always made in the focal lengths I'm looking for, so the Radians become good for filling in the gaps. It also depends which you come across first in the used market.

Stu

[Stu]

Just to add, I think in your scope, a 4.5mm Delos would be a lovely planetary eye, particularly for Jupiter giving x177. A 4mm Radian and then either another Delos or Pentax XW at 3.5mm would give you a nice range at high mags.

There is something more interesting about having eyepieces from different ranges I think. Somehow if I had a uniform set across the board I think it would be a little dull :-). I try to keep some basic consistency of type at certain focal lengths, but with enough variety too. Generally I have either Nagler or Ethos at the longer focal lengths, or Delos/XW/Radian at the shorter end. This gives me plenty of eye relief at the higher magnifications to make things more comfortable. I'm generally less bothered about field of view at this end, 70 ish degrees is fine, so the Ethos SX is an exception to this 'rule'

Stu

[Joves]

Sounds like you'd be quite satisfied with any of the recommendations above, Simon. They're all quality eyepieces.

Personally, in the rough focal length you're considering, I have the following:

3.7mm Ethos

3-6mm Nagler Zoom

Vixen LV 4mm

Whilst I really like each of them, the Ethos is quite easily my favourite. The 3-6mm zoom is a cracking EP, but the image quality (clarity, sharpness, contrast, FOV, etc.) viewed through the Ethos is stunning. I do agree with Stu though, that they're not the easiest EP's to get along with. Do you wear glasses? If so, I'd steer clear. That being said, I find the offered FOV with the eyecup up still very appealing, even though I know I'm not getting the full 110 degrees without pushing my eyeball deep into it (which shows me better views of my eyelashes than the object I'm viewing and, as much as I appreciate having eyelashes, I don't necessarily enjoy so much). However, with the eyecup rolled down (my preferred method with the 3.7mm), gently hovering my eye over the eyepiece, I find the views to be breathtaking (sorry for the sappy descriptions, I don't normally talk like this ).

The Vixen is a lovely EP also, but the TV's are in another league. They come at a pretty hefty cost though, so you really need to consider the use you'll get out of an eyepiece of this focal length. In my scope (also the Televue 76 like Stu, and now recently also a 110mm APO with 660mm FL) it gives me a perfectly framed view of M42 and the moon, so I foresee getting plenty of use out of it).

If you're hoping for a better comparison between Ethos and Radian, I can only really give that in the 6mm department, where I own:

6mm Ethos

6mm Radian

3-6mm Nagler Zoom

7mm Vixen LV

Again, the Ethos wins for me, but this time comfortably also with the eyecup rolled up (the eye relief in the Ethos gets significantly kinder as the FL rises). The Radian certainly gives it a run for its money though. Sure, there is a colour cast through the Radian (images seems whiter than through the others), but I really don't care about that. Who knows what colour anything is really supposed to be anyway?!?!

If you can hold out for another day or so, I have the Ethos 4.7mm arriving, which will complete my entire Ethos lineup. I'm anticipating this will get more use than the 3.7mm and just may be the answer you're looking for. Either way, will let you know what it's like.

Cheers,

Aaron

[Joves]

I also have a 51.5cm squawker, as seen in my avatar, but I don't think you'll get very great views through him

[alan potts]

Cy,

I would go for the 3.5mm Delos that hit Astro B&S late yesterday, it is a very good eyepiece.

Alan

[John]

.... It also depends which you come across first in the used market.

This is very true. Sometimes a strategy gets revised when an interesting opportunity presents itself 

[Mark in Macc]

I had to sell it to help fund an Ethos 21mm

You've really got it bad John:)

[Stu]

This is very true. Sometimes a strategy gets revised when an interesting opportunity presents itself

Yes indeed. In fact, a while ago, I bought a new 5mm Radian, only to find a 5 and 7mm XW for sale used. Luckily I was able to return the Radian without any loss so all was well. I keep wondering about changing the 3.5t6 for a Delos, but given my habit of taking small refractors travelling with me, the compact size of the T6 has its advantages.

Stu

[cyborg421]

Thanks for all the responses. It looks like I'm veering towards the Delos 3.5 and 4.5 but I'm not in any particular hurry so I will see what comes up second hand.

Simon