Budget cameras?

[Schorhr]

Hello there,

is there any <50gbp of the cctv cameras or webcam capable of doing longer exposures, I could recommend to students?

I know you can get cheap CCTV once in a while, or used SPC900nc webcams and some small digital cameras capable of longer exposures, but I'd like something constantly available...

-Any cheap cctv available at aliexpress, ebay?

-Any webcam out there atm?

-Any cheap compact cameras with 30s or bulb exposure?

Thank you :-)

-Marcus

[DoctorD]

Hi Marcus

Have you seen this one:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-3-SONY-960H-EXview-HAD-CCD-II-700TVL-0-0003Lux-Real-WDR-OSD-3D-DNR/583938938.html

There's a thread over on CN about it - looks pretty good for the money - similar performance to the SCB2000.

If you order a few you might save on postage.

I think someone of this forum has one - it's possible that this is similar to the camera used as the basis for the Mallincam Jr although the Mallincam will be heavily modified. Mind you at $99 the Mallincam Jr. Is a good but - not sure what import duty to Europe would be.

HTH

Paul

[Spacedout]

Yes this does look like the best bang for your buck.  For me I'd go with Rock's version for the sake of an extra £20 and hope to receive one from Santa

[Schorhr]

Hello Paul,

thanks for the link!

Not bad at all! It says "free" shipping, so I guess I'd only save a bit if I'd order a whole bunch ;-)

Too bad the cheap CCTV from the UK is not available anymore, that was a steal :-)

As for importing a Mallincan, with postage, tax/customs (19%) the dollar price is about 1:1 in euro, and $99 is a bit on the high side ;-)

I guess the PD1 is a good alternative here in europe though it only has a 1/3" sensor...

Too bad there is no 20€ webcam around that does the job, I'm sure the chip itself would be available, but ever since the webcams are advertised with HD they are usually not usable for anything.

Only 720p, no full hd for stopmotion (which I teach as well), and no sensitive chips anymore...

[Schorhr]

Yes this does look like the best bang for your buck.  For me I'd go with Rock's version for the sake of an extra £20 and hope to receive one from Santa

Hello,

rock's version?

[Spacedout]

Hello,

rock's version?

Hi Marcus,

Sorry.  Rock Mallin of Mallincam   They normally help out with import charges so I would not worry too much but on that front but still there will be more cost effective out there.  Your right too we need some more CR6 cameras to pop up on EBay

[Schorhr]

Oh,

thanks for clarifying! :-) Well the 19% custom/taxallways remain, under 150€ there are no further import duties :-)

Oh well, perhaps there'll be a cheap camera again some other time.

If there's ever a €20 camera, I'll get five or so for my classes.

[Spacedout]

Oh,

thanks for clarifying! :-) Well the 19% custom/taxallways remain, under 150€ there are no further import duties :-)

Oh well, perhaps there'll be a cheap camera again some other time.

If there's ever a €20 camera, I'll get five or so for my classes.

If ever there is a camera for that price I'll also buy five maybe more!

[Schorhr]

I'm currently exploring the possibilities of doing budget astro photography with kids, using their smart phones (mostly android), exposure simulation apps (adding multiple shots to increase gain), a cheap barndoor mount (~3€) and the infamous "reading glasses telescope" somewhere within the 200mm FL ;-)

But a real camera would make things much easier.

[DoctorD]

Hi Marcus

Sorry - I made a mistake in my earlier post, the Ali Express camera is not related to the Mallincam Jr. rather it's similar to the Mallicam Micro which is $99.

Sorry for any confusion this may have caused - the Mallicam Jr. is a much higher spec camera at $495.

HTH

Paul

[hoops86]

Hey Marcus,

I have the camera Paul linked you from aliexpress. Its called a LN300 and its tiny! A fraction of the size and weight of the scb2000. It only costs £45 and has free delivery.

As mentioned this is a unmodified mallincam micro. There is some debate around what he has actually changed. He mentions updating it to the RJ-11 chip from the RJ-7 however i can confirm that the camera from aliexpress does already have a RJ-11 chip in it.

It can go up to x1024 sense-up and considering the price is a very good camera. It can also be purchased with the IR filter already removed

Have a look at a thread i made here on the camera http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/199510-ln300-first-light/ has a couple of example pics and a video of the moon.

And another thread from a different forum http://astrovideoforum.proboards.com/thread/67/ln300-set-sens-x512-x1024 has a video showing the difference from x512 to x1024.

Also another thread showing pics of the inside of the camera etc http://astrovideoforum.proboards.com/thread/63/ln300-video-camera

The camera is not without its problems though. An issue i have is the background sometimes looks very purple when it should be black. But all things considered its a good camera for the price

Cheers

Chris

[Schorhr]

Thanks for the info Paul, perhaps I should just read more carefully :-)

The camera at Aliexpress costs ~55€, so with paypal fees and import duties/tax I'm at around 65-70€, not too far from the Phil Dyer camera ;-)

I bought the PD for myself due to the ready-to-go and fast delivery, but of course the higher integration time is nice but depending on my location I can't go up to full 1024x... We all know the problem I suppose ;-)

I also wish I had heard about the wire-remote version, this is kind of upsetting me at the moment.

Also, on a side note, is it normal that the BNC/Video out is so sensitive? I get a lot of interruptions especially when the cam is tilted upwards the dangling cable alone causes problems.

[DoctorD]

Hi Marcus

When I've ordered from a China I have not had to pay import duty (lap top battery and LED bike lights) seems to slip under the UK tax radar, not sure what the situation might be for you.

It sounds like you have a bad connection, on my SDC435 I do not see any change in video as the camera/scope moves up and down.

Or possibly it's the lead, have you tried a different video lead?

HTH

Paul

[Schorhr]

Hello Paul,

probably you got lucky?

I don't know about the regulations in the UK, but it seems like it's similar ( http://www.dutycalculator.com/country-guides/Import-duty-taxes-when-importing-into-the-United-Kingdom/ ).

Here it's:

>22€ 19% Tax (there it seems to be a bit less)

>150€ Duties depending to the type of goods

Here they have gotten pretty strict about false claims (yet, many ebay sellers from hong kong still lable every packag as $5 gift, this usually results in calling the recipient into the customs office to show a bill and payment receipt)

Oh, I will try yet another cable, but I'll contact PD if the problem remains :-(

[Schorhr]

Does it just depend on the sensor, so any with the same ccd and sense up would perform similar?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/UFO-Shape-Sony-CCD-Metal-Vandal-proof-Camera-Waterproof-/260738549820?pt=US_Security_Cameras&hash=item3cb53a883c

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-1-3-SONY-SUPER-HAD-CCD-II-480TVL-0-001Lux-D-WDR-OSD-Mini/577800095.html

(512x Sense Up)

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sense-up-x512-650TVL-Sternenlicht-Mini-Bullet-Kamera-Uberwachungskamera-/310410515135?pt=DE_Haus_Garten_Heimwerker_Sicherheitstechnik&hash=item4845e892bf ( ? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Surveillance-700TVL-Sony-Effio-E-CCD-HD-960H-3-6mm-Lens-Mini-Bullet-Outdoor-Waterproof-Hidden/1168791535.html )

To clarify, if there is a camera for 20€ that only makes brighter objects visible or is just not *quite* as sensitive as the previously mentioned one, that would be okey.

If Orion, Andromeda, perhaps ring nebula could be made visible (ring nebula worked with PD1, ~32x Sense-up @ 130/650 without tracking :-) ) That would be enough.

I suppose these don't have an exposure & sense-up setting?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/CCTV-High-Resolution-1-3-Sony-960H-700TVL-Effio-CCD-Hidden-Camera-Mini-camera-3-7mm/591003448.html

[Mr TamiyaCowboy]

hello everyone. 

i have been reading through the section like a wild animal, gleaming infomation where possible.

next was a lengthy google search ( video astronomy is not documented much i found).

it comes down to the 435 or the scb2000 , these days the cameras should be fairly cheap

but i am still seeing units well above £100 and to far from my budget. 

so i went back to the drawing board, started looking at camera base boards.

these are populated PCB's without all the extra rubbish like a huge box, varifocal lens etc etc.

i keep seeing this sens-up mentioned but my searching of base board cameras comes up blank

on this term. all base boards i am seeing are 600-700tvl running a 1/3 sensor (sony super had)

but i still do not see any astronomy using these cameras. 

http://www.securitycamera2000.com/categories/CCTV-Cameras/Board-Cameras/

above is a link to the camera boards i am looking at the sony 1/3 super had board uses sens-up.

so i am having a guess these are also used in cctv video systems ? 

if so are there rules of thumb for these types of camera system, IE chip size , gain control etc etc

Thank you for any advice in hand

[DoctorD]

Hi

The SDC435 and SCB2000 both use 1/3" CCDs - the SCB4000 has a 1/2"chip - Sony ExView are more efficient than the SuperHAD devices.

A quick look through the list and I found this one:

http://www.securitycamera2000.com/products/700TVL-SONY-960H-EXview-CCD-SONY-EFFIO%252dS-DSP-Board-Camera-2.1mm-Lens.html

Seems to have some form of SENSE-UP function and the sensitivity is quoted at 0.0001 LUX but the F ratio is not specified making this a little ambiguous. 

Look for a camera with a sensitivity of 0.000x - three zeros after the decimal place and it might be useful for VA.

This one appear to have a small controller on the lead that allows you to set up the camera - manual control of the exposure can be every useful in VA.

However at £43.44 it's only half the cost of the SBC2000 which is proven and is a similar price to the Ali Express camera above.

You would also need to put this in a box and make some kind of adapter for the scope - I can see Davy getting excited already

Hope this helps

Paul

[Schorhr]

If I had to buy one for ~40gbp I would probably go for the CCTV @ AliExpress, or for 100gbp the PD from http://Astrophoto.co.uk .

I am really more looking for something that "barely works, but works", such as with some webcams in the past with LX mod. Unfortunately cameras such as the SPC900 mean lots of tinkering and rarely available.

[Mr TamiyaCowboy]

thanks guys , i done some more digging on the camera boards.

the sony DSP your wanting is called the Effio-P. 

other sony DPS on the cameras you see is the Effio-E version.

there is a big difference. 

the Effio-P version is the one that comes with Sens-Up

the Effio-V / A versions are new out but also have Sens-Up.

all the others Do Not, they have the basic OSD settings or are fully auto plug an play.

the most often seen is the sony Effio-E , so its one to stay clear off.

so these camera boards could be used, and lets the user re-house and add their own cooling solutions.

the sens-up power ie x255 x8 etc etc is something i have not found , but i have stumbled across

a cloudynight website that also has looked into these cameras and has found a board camera with a 1060 or something sens up.

cheapest i found was a 700tvl sony ccd board with Effio-P @ £36-38 GBP, not bad i dont think for a find,

will order after the winter break as it comes direct from hongkong,

couple the above to a cheap maplins TEC  and you could have a fairly decent Video cam.

also being a radio control enthusiast , i have looked into a 2.4ghz rx/tx system that would

transmit the signal to, so all that would be needed is a 12v powersource for the camera and the

sender/receiver ( this comes cheap to at around £50-60 for the rx/tx system)

[shirva]

No im quite content Paul. .lol..half way through sammy rebuild mod..my 2p worth is buy proven camera if starting out ..after that do some research into board cams..and moral of story is if its not mentioned here its no worth getting on speculation