First scope for someone else :s

[The_PSY3NTIST]

I have been asked by the mother-in-law to help her find a first scope for the brother in law for Christmas. She has a budget of £100 at which point I tried to explain the cost of decent optics but she still would like me to have a look. Only thing I can think of is an st80 on an eq1 or a heritage 130p dob that both cash in at 130 quid. I'm inclined to say the eq1 that can have a motor drive fitted at a later date for 25 quid. I don't know.. Anyway any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

[gkec]

I think the st80 is a good choice, it is easy to use and looks good in that it looks a lot more expensive as well as being good value for money.

[The_PSY3NTIST]

Yeah I was thinking that. I own a st80 that I use as a guide scope and they do suffer from CA quite bad when viewing the moon and planets which is my only reservation, at least with the dob that's all forgot about but the heritage 130 dob does look a bit cheap and not very substantial. I'm leaning towards the st80

[AndyWB]

I have a Heritage 130p, and isn't that fragile. It does look funny, but it works well. The base is quite stable, and smooth to move. The helical focuser is a bit cheap, and mine benefited from a little bike grease, but it works well enough so long as you don't start trying to put a camera into it, etc.. The red dot finder is a little bright, but perfectly usable. One consideration when thinking of it as a present is that, being a reflector, it'll need collimation from time to time.It also has much more aperture than the ST80. It can't really be motorised, but I've not found that a big deal - it doesn't really have the aperture for really high magnification work.

The only issue with it is there've been a few posts recently about some 130p's not closing when cold - basically, differential contraction on the extending truss and it's mount seems to lock certain scopes open until they warm up. This seems to only affect particular scopes, though, not all have this problem.

I've been pleased with mine, and it's still my weapon of choice for taking round the back of my flat. They're quite popular.

[NGC 1502]

I think that the Heritage 130 is likely to give better views than the ST80 of the most popular objects for newbies - moon / planets.

Only reservation I have (and I've never used a H 130) is that the mount is low, so needs something solid to stand it on, or maybe adapt to a decent tripod - perhaps users could comment on that ?

Not that the ST80 is no good, far from it, but I think it's best as a low power / wide field 'grab n go' or travel scope.

Regards, Ed.

[Alien 13]

If the budget is fixed the Skywatcher Mercury 705 with AZ3 comes in at £99

[Naemeth]

I think that the Heritage 130 is likely to give better views than the ST80 of the most popular objects for newbies - moon / planets.

Only reservation I have (and I've never used a H 130) is that the mount is low, so needs something solid to stand it on, or maybe adapt to a decent tripod - perhaps users could comment on that ?

Not that the ST80 is no good, far from it, but I think it's best as a low power / wide field 'grab n go' or travel scope.

Regards, Ed.

Camera Tripod won't do (tube is too long and doesn't have a screw for a camera tripod), really the minimum you are looking at in an AZ4. Either that or put it on a garden table.

[brantuk]

"The only issue with it is there've been a few posts recently about some 130p's not closing when cold - basically, differential contraction on the extending truss and it's mount seems to lock certain scopes open until they warm up. This seems to only affect particular scopes, though, not all have this problem."

Yes - I get the same thing even with the 300P Flex Tube - it doesn't lock up totally, but in very cold conditions it does get quite stiff to close. How old is your bro in law David? Is this a child's first scope or for an an adult? If she can't afford brand new then is it a possibility to consider s/h?

[fredster]

I bought my son one of these for xmas.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-skyhawk-1145p.html

It's all packed away now but i did grab a sneaky look through it late Monday evening. I was nicely surprised how well it worked. Jupiter looked great, quite a bit of detail. Not just two bands and some moons but some finer detail too. While the double cluster looked superb in a Celestron 32mm Plossl.

The EQ1 was my only concern really. One, would it be sturdy enough and two, would it be too complicated. But having tested it there is absolutely no problem with stability. And i'll be there to help anyway, so setup shouldn't be an issue.

I own an ST80, which i rarely use and it had crossed my mind to give him that for xmas and buy an AZ3 to go with it. But as has already been alluded too, the ST80 is not a stellar performer when it comes to the sort of stuff a newbie or youngster will want to look at. Their first port of call, naturally, will be the Moon and Jupiter. The 114P and 130P are vastly superior for that sort of thing.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

My kids have a mini-Dob based on the same optics as the 1145P and it is a very nice little scope. Yet it does require collimation (I do that for them for now), but I think I could teach them to do it. It is not rocket science after all. The views are nice and sharp. Slower Newtonians are easier in this respect, as they tolerate alignment errors more readily, but these bigger scopes need sturdier mounts, which adds cost.

[fredster]

You're right Michael, the collimation is the thing with the newts. And someone new almost certainly won't question whether their scope is performing at its optimum or even close to it. Like you i'm there to take care of it, so no problems. But someone else by themselves will be in a different situation. That said i had a 114 Tasco aged 16 (long time ago) and figured it all out by myself. No internet at the time, the library was my friend back then.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

You're right Michael, the collimation is the thing with the newts. And someone new almost certainly won't question whether their scope is performing at its optimum or even close to it. Like you i'm there to take care of it, so no problems. But someone else by themselves will be in a different situation. That said i had a 114 Tasco aged 16 (long time ago) and figured it all out by myself. No internet at the time, the library was my friend back then.

A good friend of mine had a Tasco 114 (F=900mm) and it was a lovely little scope. We found collimation easy (just as with my home-made 6" F/8), but perhaps this was due to the tolerance of said scopes to errors.

[fredster]

A good friend of mine had a Tasco 114 (F=900mm) and it was a lovely little scope. We found collimation easy (just as with my home-made 6" F/8), but perhaps this was due to the tolerance of said scopes to errors.

I know Tasco cop a lot of flack, the laughing stock of the astro community. But my first two scopes, a Tasco 60mm Frac and the 114 Newt, were superb little instruments. Have very fond memories of them and found it all very strange when i heard people slating them so badly. That was right until the moment a friend bought a 50mm Tasco from Argos and i saw exactly why their reputation was so poor. Amazing how things changed so quickly. My scopes were circa late '70's and early 80's. His was bought new in 1985. A world of difference.

I think you're definitely right about the F8 being very forgiving. I only used a drilled film canistor back then, seemed to do the job very well. 

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I know Tasco cop a lot of flack, the laughing stock of the astro community. But my first two scopes, a Tasco 60mm Frac and the 114 Newt, were superb little instruments. Have very fond memories of them and found it all very strange when i heard people slating them so badly. That was right until the moment a friend bought a 50mm Tasco from Argos and i saw exactly why their reputation was so poor. Amazing how things changed so quickly. My scopes were circa late '70's and early 80's. His was bought new in 1985. A world of difference.

I think you're definitely right about the F8 being very forgiving. I only used a drilled film canistor back then, seemed to do the job very well. 

Don't forget that the Tascos weren't that cheap then. Prices of new scopes have dropped hugely since the late 70s when I started out. My dream scope when I started was a C8 on a fork mount. That cost over 8000 Dutch guilders back then. In 1995, I got a C8 on Vixen GP mount for 3,900 Dutch guilders (including three EPs). This is a stunning price drop even when you do not take inflation into account. The Tasco went for 629 guilders (still know after all these years). The price for a similar instrument is now 150 euro, or less than half the original price (again without taking inflation into account). As things got cheaper at the higher end (computer controled manufacturing will have played a part), the lower end got squeezed, and standards at some companies had to drop.

[Big_Daz]

My Heritage 130p has been used on a patio table, patio chair, sat on the ground and even on my motorcycle rear seat pad all were relatively stable apart from the motorbike however still viewable. The main concern is comfort and the more comfortable you can get the longer you will spend at the eyepiece. 

[The_PSY3NTIST]

"

Yes - I get the same thing even with the 300P Flex Tube - it doesn't lock up totally, but in very cold conditions it does get quite stiff to close. How old is your bro in law David? Is this a child's first scope or for an an adult? If she can't afford brand new then is it a possibility to consider s/h?

I bought my son one of these for xmas.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-skyhawk-1145p.html

It's all packed away now but i did grab a sneaky look through it late Monday evening. I was nicely surprised how well it worked. Jupiter looked great, quite a bit of detail. Not just two bands and some moons but some finer detail too. While the double cluster looked superb in a Celestron 32mm Plossl.

The EQ1 was my only concern really. One, would it be sturdy enough and two, would it be too complicated. But having tested it there is absolutely no problem with stability. And i'll be there to help anyway, so setup shouldn't be an issue.

I own an ST80, which i rarely use and it had crossed my mind to give him that for xmas and buy an AZ3 to go with it. But as has already been alluded too, the ST80 is not a stellar performer when it comes to the sort of stuff a newbie or youngster will want to look at. Their first port of call, naturally, will be the Moon and Jupiter. The 114P and 130P are vastly superior for that sort of thing.

Now that is a contender

Thanks for all the replies This community is just brilliant. I agree that the st80 may not be ideal and I have looked for second hand but it's all higher spec items up for grabs at the moment.

My brother-in-law is 27 and I'm sure once he gets a first scope he will be bitten by the bug! I know he isn't going to get anything amazing for 100-130 quid but I just want to make sure it's something that will show him just enough to make him want another.

Thanks again everyone.

Can anyone else give feed back on the skywatcher skyhawk 1145 on an eq1?. Didn't realise how low the price was on this.

Thanks again everyone.

[fredster]

This may help:

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/104602-skywatcher-skyhawk-1145p/

http://www.astronomyforum.net/skywatcher-telescopes-forum/117900-skywatcher-skyhawk-1145p-preliminary-review.html

It was also the Sky at Night group winner, so comes highly recommended. Its been a winner since Orion released it as a Starblast 4.5 dob some 8 years ago. Real little gem of scope.

[The_PSY3NTIST]

 
 

[The_PSY3NTIST]

Well ended up getting the 1145p for him and what a great little scope it is. 124 quid with an eq 1 mount and a parabolic mirror what a bargin. Thanks for all your suggestions