Televue plossls - how easy are they on the eye ?

[AlexB67]

Hello,

I've been thinking about getting one or two of the TV plossls. In fact  a 8 and 11mm turned up here recently and I was very tempted and almost wanted to buy them, though ideally I was looking for a 20mm to fill a gap between my 15 and 25mm BST, knowing that the eye relief would be okay for me. In the end I restrained myself since I suspected that at that focal length I am not not sure I could tolerate the eye relief, so instead of  doing the impulse buy type thing without ever having tried a TV plossl, last night I tried the 10mm plossl that came with my 10 inch Dob to see how I would get on with it.

Interestingly, I think the 10 flextube Dob stock eyepieces may be slightly different to the super MA that came with my 130p heritage, at least they looks slightly different and the label is different. It says 10mm Super plossl multicoated  compared to Super 10mm on the Heritage 10mmm, but I suspect they could well be the same.  Whatever the case, it was a good test to see what it is like using an eyepiece with that short eye relief knowing the TV plossl would be similar, having a very short eyerelief also in shorter focal lengths. 

A brief test comparing the 10mm SW plossl and my 8mm BST that is so easy to use, easy to see the edge of the field,  moreover, just the whole field of view is just that much easier to get your eye around in comfort terms. On the other hand the 10mm was very constrictive on the eye.  Without glasses the view just looked so small ( even neglecting FOV differences) but to comfortably see the edge of the view and for that matter the whole field, relatively speaking, much harder work, and  I am not sure I would like it and I don't think I could go back to that.

So how do the TV plossls compare in this regard ?.  In the end I suspect a plossl is a plossl, a TV plossl will have such issues also for me I suspect ?.  I always found the 25mm SW plossl fine to use, and I think a TV 20mm plossl would be fine for me as an eyepiece I'd like, but I doubt at 15m or less even without glasses I may well regret such a purchase. 

Am I worrying  too much about this ? Any feedback welcome from TV plossl users, or anyone else for that matter. I am happy to observe with and without glasses, but more and more I find with the BSTs it is just not needed, but I do so anyway at times to squeeze my eye as close to the eyepiece as possible to block out any light as the main reason  

Thanks in advance.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

TV Plossls are no different from others when it comes to eye relief, I understand. I never really could tolerate any Plossl below about 18-20mm, because I observe with glasses.

[AlexB67]

Thanks Michael, It is perhaps worth commenting when I said, the image just seemed much smaller, I think this is largely a psychological effect, compared to 8mm BST, less bright stars, though the background was quite dark in both cases at that fairly high power, but it was such an underwhelming experience going back to the SW 10mm plossl.  It really hammered it home for me, that for me at least the difference for immersing oneself in the view and stay concentrated, the difference between a 8mm BST explorer and a stock SW 10mm plossl really is like night and day, but I also suspect it could be a matter of getting use to again without glasses, getting the eye position comfortable and so on.

Still, I have my doubts ever getting them in short focal length and your point only confirms that.

[foundaplanet]

I don't wear glasses and have a few tv plossls.

They are all comfortable to use as far as I am concerned with exception to the 8mm, it is a very good eyepiece but can be a little awkward.

The 11mm is one of my most used ep's and the 15mm barlows extremely well with the x2 tv, this is my most used high mag combo. I have yet to look through anything that gives sharper views than a tv plossl. The nags and stuff have bigger fields but they are not sharper.

[RT65CB-SWL]

I find them very easy on the eye. I wear glasses/spectacles, but I remove them when observing.

On the plus side, TeleVue Plossls are parfocal too!

[RikM]

I have older 21mm and 13mm TV Plossls for use at public observing events. The 21mm I can use with my glasses on—just, the 13mm I can't. They are very nice Plossls, but I prefer more viewing comfort and a slightly wider field of view.

[AlexB67]

Thanks for all the info chaps.  Rik, I notice you are local, are these event open locally for everyone, since you can't be far away from me ?. I think the only way to bite this bullet is to try one at some stage since I doubt I would get on with them after my easy of use BST dosage I am now accustomed to.

I am beginning to feel however this is a question of biting the bullet and that in the long run the Delos with 20mm eye relief is the way forward for me and a healthy amount of FOV I'd more than happy with at the shorter focal length.  For that matter anywhere around Bristol I'd be prepared to go for a meet to try a TV plossl, preferably in my own scope, but anyone within sort of Bristol range and a bit out  from there I'd be more than delighted to arrange something if anyone is open to that and wants to PM me. 

[RikM]

Cotswold AS host public observing events 5 or 6 times a year. In Shurdington for Stargazing live, at Slimbridge WWT fairly regularly, Cheltenham science festival etc. They are normally posted on our website. I'm not sure when the next one is. We have local club meets as well, you are more than welcome to pop up for one of those if the weather plays ball. I'll send you a PM.

[John]

I've owned all the TV plossls apart from the 55mm 2" one and I've had sets in other the older "smoothside" style and the current type. I don't wear glasses to observe and have had no real problems in seeing the field edges in the sorter focal lengths.

Optically their performance is very good. If I ever decide to "downsize" my eyepiece set it would be to a set of TV plossls plus some Baader GO's or a 3-6mm Nagler zoom. I could live with them very easily 

[Stu]

I have a full set down to 11mm which I find is about the comfortable limit for me, although to be fair I've not used an 8mm. I use the 11mm with my PST and whilst you do have to get your eye close, I still find I can have the rubber guard up and not have any problems. They are very sharp and lightweight which helps with scope balance. Obviously, with glasses the shorter focal lengths are a no no.

I do have BGO's down to 6mm and can still cope with the eye relief in these. Perhaps because of the narrower fov and the fact they don't have the eye guard.

If it stays clear tonight, I'm planning on giving a few of them a run out in the mak on Jupiter which should be fun.

Stu

[AlexB67]

Apart from optical quality John,  I would suspect the TV plossl at that cost should be better, but how would you get on with a standard 10mm SW plossl that come with such scopes.  When I had nothing different I didn't know any different, now I  know different with at least a BST to compare with, but I was able to use the 10mm SW plossl without glasses at the time when that is all I had, but I would think comfort levels with a TV plossl, it may not be dissimilar to a SW plossl ? 

[Stu]

Eye relief, and thus comfort levels will be very similar as both are Plossls so share the same fov/eye relief. Optically, as you say, there is plenty of difference :-)

Stu

[Stu]

Eye relief on Plossls is, I believe around 70 to 80% of the focal length.

Stu

[YKSE]

TV's plössls are more exactly 70% of FL,  according to their specification

http://www.televue.com/engine/TV3b_page.asp?id=214

[AlexB67]

Thanks all, I had an offer to try some at some stage, so I'll see. If they'll blow me away once I used one and the extra effort needed to use them  I am okay without glasses I may come around to them, but since what some like or some deem to be comfortable and acceptable depends very much on observer and eyes.  I think the only way to know is to try for myself, then I'll see where my investments will go.

I must admit I doubt I would get on with an 8mm or 11mm even without glasses after my BSTs, it is not all about sharpness for me as much as about concentration levels, and the easy on the eye and the adjustability of the BST  allow me to gaze for a long time without getting a headache or strain so to speak,  but who knows, If comfort and sharpness need to come with a bigger price tag, so be it   

[scarp15]

I use televue plossls for planetary observing. Composed of a four glass element, they seem to penetrate a little more detail and colour on a planetary subject (in my opinion) compared to the naglers - which are a bit sharper and achieve better contrast as well as, of course, providing a much wider field for observing planetary moons in the same field.

However, personally, I do not like to use them (for planetary work) on a non tracking mount. I have, but nearly let go of (again) an 11mm plossl, which is a great match for my C8, 185X. I did recently let go of an 8mm plossl 254x. Both are very good performers, the 8mm though. whilst delivering fleeting moments of brilliance, was a litle too high powered for most of my planetary observing sessions - so I am now looking to replace it with a suitable 10mm, 203x. I do not wear glasses and can cope with the narrow eye relief, and quite like the small scale of the eyepiece and intimate views that they can achieve.  

[Mark in Macc]

I had the 8, 11 and 15 mm and sold them due to the eye relief. The 15 mm was bareable but only just. I don't' wear glasses but I do like comfortable eyepieces that facilitate more time at the eyepiece. If you like BSTs, the smaller TV plossls will most likely feel cramped.

[Moonshane]

they are lovely. black and green, small and cute and great quality box and caps. given the number of chances we get to look at our gear, rather than through it, this might be a consideration

seriously though I would agree broadly with that above. I find the eye relief is fine but you have to work to see the field stop at 15mm or less. but as far as I am concerned they are optically as good as anything for the field you get.

[Merlin66]

My TV Plossls were bought back in the 1980's - never felt the need to really upgrade/ change.....

Now they perform better than my aging eyes....

[AlexB67]

As much as the green label plossl is attractive, of their optical brilliance I have no reason to doubt anything that I'll get 50 degrees of optical quality. I think a 20mm will be bought at some stage no doubt.  For me the thing is while I can observe without glasses, my eyes are not the best, and the strain it induces over a long run, versus the comfort of spectacle observing and the ease which that comes, I don't think the really shorter eye relief is for me. 

What I meant by seeing the field stop, it is not just the short  eyerelief, clearly I can see it if my eye is close enough, but being able to process the whole field all at once and the field stop simultaneously with ease, as I found with the 10mm SW 10mm plossl. It is doable, but It is hard to put in words when your eye are less than perfect as in my case versus people that are blessed with eyes that do not need specs or eye correction.  The one thing I learned with the BST and even the cheaper SW UWA skywatcher  eyepiece I have, but to a slightly lesser degree, I can look though them for long time with ease. I've just been looking at M15 for a good half hour with a  8mm BST and also with the 6mm teasing out every star.  I think with such a plossl in the 8 - 11mm range I'd simply struggle to focus on the target that long without my eyes going wonky and protesting at some stage.  

Optical brilliance with  10 mins at the eyepiece before my eye protest, or 30 mins without hassle using a cheaper BST, for me that means the BST is already a winner in that case given my eyes, even if a plossl has a TV label it is not going to make the difference ( I suspect), but I'll see when I get tor try one at some stage

[Naemeth]

Alex, if you're ever up North you're perfectly welcome to try mine . The eye relief is fairly comfortable on the 10.5mm I have, and the 8mm is certainly usable, you just have to get in a bit closer. The Nagler 3-6mm Zoom is about the same, maybe a tad more eye relief.

[BillP]

The TVs of course are superbly built and have extremely good transmission.  Thier off-axis is also better than most due to the altered design where the external facing lens surfaces are concave instead of flat.  For me though, I found the 11mm and 8mm uncomfortable to use with their eye guards in place.  I was always removing them to get a comfortable view.  Many Plossls out there have 52 degree AFOVs, the TVs are a tad smaller at 50 degrees so you might notice that.  Also, due to their design and the size of the field lens, you need a Powermate or Telecentric Amplifier (not a Barlow) for them to be magnified and keep the field stop looking sharp.  A conventional Barlow will vignette the AFOV some, especially the shorty Barlows.  But even long Barlows do not work well for them relative to the field stop, so even the TV 2x Barlow will not show a sharp field stop with a TV Plossl.

[rl]

If eye relief is a serious issue have you considered the Vixen NLV  series? The optics are almost as good as TV (if not as good?), the bodies are a bit plasticky but you do get plenty on nice comfy eye relief.

RL

[AlexB67]

Thanks for that info Biilp. I was never realistically thinking of going a barlow route but the thought did occur to me how that would work out, since of course it would be useful in controlling eye relief. 

If eye relief is a serious issue have you considered the Vixen NLV  series? The optics are almost as good as TV (if not as good?), the bodies are a bit plasticky but you do get plenty on nice comfy eye relief.

RL

Thanks Rl, I am aware of them but never read up  them a great deal, as bargain eyepieces go I think the cheaper NPL are well regarded too. 

I'll be considering many no doubt along the line but the green label thing is like a little bar magnet .  Currently got my eyes kinda set on one of the ES eyepieces however for next month in the longer focal length before those bargains vanish, I feel they are too good to let go at that price the more I read what they are.   Probably the 68 degrees 28mm, that would  just  widen my view a tad and be my first 2  inch, and that way after changing my mind again on filters, since my last order failed with an out of stock, I can then buy a 2 inch filter to work with that anyway.   

I am in no rush to buy and get such extras at a cost, I have plenty targets to be getting on with the equipment I already have now, but a slightly lower power eyepiece  would be welcome as higher priority,  and more eyepieces down the line 

[RikM]

I use an ES 28mm 68° as my lowest power eyepiece in the solid tube version 250PX and it's great. I was out for 3 hours last night and this EP was in the focuser for at least 2 of those. Got my best ever view of M33. Fab.