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Low magnification options

Stargazer_00

By Stargazer_00
in Discussions - Eyepieces

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Stargazer_00

Stargazer_00

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An open post really.  I'm looking to close off my eyepeice set with something by Televue, but I can't decide what.

I'm currently sorted up to 13mm and feel I need one or two eyepieces to round it off.

I like having a range of AFOVs having previously owned a full box of 82 degrees I found having one fixed AFOV becomes taken for granted.

I primarily view in light polluted skies so dont want anything much over a 5mm exit pupil, however I also want to get as much true field out of my main scope as possible, ideally around a full degree or more.

My current Meade 24mm 82 and ES 18mm really dont stack up in terms of quality so both will be sold off in due course.

I am currently thinking the following:

Pantoptic 24mm  (dont own any 68 degrees)

Nagler 26mm (would want T4) 

Panoptic 27mm

Ethos 21mm

Now clearly you'd say if you can have the Ethos 21mm then get it.  I really would like to own one but it's incredibly expensive and I'm not suire I want to spend that much.  The 13mm does blow my hair back though..

I like a bit of variety in my box in terms of AFOV and wondered how these choices each rate. 

I realise it'll probably end up being a 21mm Ethos but it's definitely worth asking you guys for thoughts.  I was very tempted by that 27mm Pan that popped up recently which got me thinking.

I know some people have a mix of ES100s and Ethos and I wondered if anyone uses them both in fast scopes (F4.5 - F4.7) and can comment on performance side by side. An ES100 20mm is much much cheaper than an Ethos 21mm, I just wonder if if id regret it.   The on axis performance difference between a ES18mm and a Meade 24mm UWA compared to an Ethos or Delos is not even comparable to my eye. I put my Meade 24mm in the 14" the other night and almost immediatly took it out again.  The stars just aren't tack sharp once you've looked through a Televue :(

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crashtestdummy

crashtestdummy

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The ES18mm isnt a good eyepiece to compare as it reflects badly on the rest of the range.i use an ES 100 20mm in my 16" f4.5 and its an amazing eyepiece.not tried the 21mm ethos as theres no point,i would never say that price!

You dont say what scope you have so cant comment much but i have a 30mm 82,and 20,14,9mm 100's and a 2x extender and cant imagine needing more on my scope

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Damo636

Damo636

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Graham

You say the 13 Ethos blows your hair back, well, I think you already know the answer to your dilemma! For what it's worth, I agree with Alan in that the 26 Nagler is an excellent eyepiece, the 21 Ethos however is an "exceptional" eyepiece!

Edit: Don't discount the 20mm ES, by all accounts it's very very close to the Ethos in performance.

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laowho

laowho

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I'll just add, since you mentioned cost, that the longer focal length EPs are much more forgiving on the light cone, and that if someone were to look for a place in their magnification range to save money, the low power end is the place where they can do this. We were constrained in our choices here, but had we been able, we probably would have gone with the ES 82 or 100, but only because of the cost/benefit analysis. Also, you're only asking for about 1 degree TFOV, and you'd be able to accomplish that and your exit pupil range with a Delos, no? From everything I've read, it's the best of the bunch. I'd also be asking whether I'd mind a visible field stop.

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jetstream

jetstream

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Graham I am facing a similar choice.The 21mm Ethos must be great as it seems they all are.However the ES 20mm can be had in the States right now for $300.00-and possibly a 5% discount on top of that depending where you buy.....Myself,at least right now, am going to use my refractor with my 17mm Ethos for a 2.7 deg TFOF- the star colors and brilliance with this combo is amazing.I may look at a bit bigger refractor down the road (faster f ratio too) to use with my existing eyepieces-not sure about that one either though as I love my Stellarvue.

PS-I am waiting in the wings for another Ethos sale......

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Andy_E

Andy_E

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I'll just add, since you mentioned cost, that the longer focal length EPs are much more forgiving on the light cone, and that if someone were to look for a place in their magnification range to save money, the low power end is the place where they can do this. We were constrained in our choices here, but had we been able, we probably would have gone with the ES 82 or 100, but only because of the cost/benefit analysis. Also, you're only asking for about 1 degree TFOV, and you'd be able to accomplish that and your exit pupil range with a Delos, no? From everything I've read, it's the best of the bunch. I'd also be asking whether I'd mind a visible field stop.

Not 100% sure I agree with this I'm afraid. I'm not going to argue optical technicalities (I'm unqualified to do so), but my experience is quite the opposite. Higher focal length EPs seem to struggle far more than lower ones in terms of coping with optical abbreviations... becoming more and more apparent the wider the AFOV. I wouldn't want to 'save money' in any part of my EP range if I'm honest, but needless to say I've had to spend more on higher FLs than lower to achieve satisfactory results.

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laowho

laowho

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Not 100% sure I agree with this I'm afraid. I'm not going to argue optical technicalities (I'm unqualified to do so), but my experience is quite the opposite. Higher focal length EPs seem to struggle far more than lower ones in terms of coping with optical abbreviations... becoming more and more apparent the wider the AFOV. I wouldn't want to 'save money' in any part of my EP range if I'm honest, but needless to say I've had to spend more on higher FLs than lower to achieve satisfactory results.

Well, from here just off the top of my head, page 50, "Illustrated Guide to Astronomical Wonders: From Novice to Master Observer"

"The good news, though, is that low power is more forgiving than high power, so if you need to economize, the finder eyepiece is the place to do it."

As for spending more, it's for the added glass. But yeah, this is pretty common knowledge and is also born out by experience.

Cheers,

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Naemeth

Naemeth

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The 24mm Panoptic is superb, very happy with mine and I'm keeping it with me, forever. The 22T4 will be very comfortable, and the 26T5 will be a great eyepiece. To be honest, they'll all be great, so it's really a tough decision.

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Rustysplit

Rustysplit

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The 27mm Pan is a stunner imho. Very comfortable to use with bags of eye relief. I imagine that the 24mm is just as good. Some people mention the pincushion effect of the 27mm, it is only noticeable when slewing around and to be honest, is a total non issue. The colour rendition is excellent. Very much a "keeper".

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Stargazer_00

Stargazer_00

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Thanks for all the responses guys.   It's good to hear that those choice will all work out if I wanted them too, I suspected as much but it's good to be reassured.

I personally think that you can't cut costs on a low power mag eyepiece in a fast scope, experience has taught my that fast newts tear lower quality eyepieces to shreds at low mags - even entry level premium eyepieces show wanting to my eyes.  My savings are currently sitting around the brand new mark for a 24mm panoptic.  I'm not desperate yet so I'll keep saving and see how things go, until the point I can't resist any longer or a good deal comes up second hand.  I think Damo hit it on the head, all the eyepieces are very good but the Ethos is exceptional.  My box is mostly Ethos and Delos now (apart from the zoom) so i've very much gotten used to and quite frankly want nothing but exceptional :/

I'll continue to save towards a 21mm Ethos or a 22mm T4 (which looks awesome and fulfils my needs I think) unless one of my shortlist comes up in the meantime at a very good second hand price.  That way I can try it and flip it later if I don't get on with it.  If I get on with it then great, I can spend whatever remaining savings I have elsewhere!

Its worth stating that I can already achieve wide angles in my 6" with the 13mm Ethos showing 1.75 degrees with a 2.6mm exit pupil (57x) so it's not like I can't get these wide views at all.  Both my scopes serve a purpose beyond convenience of use, I just want to extract wide and bright views from my 14".    The 13mm in my main scope shows 0.8 degrees with a 2.7mm exit pupil (126x) already so pretty much a money shot eyepiece for the scope for many objects.  I just feel I want a little more field, and slightly brighter on axis views for those very dim galaxies that are coming soon (Virgo cluster).   It'll extract more potential out of both of my scopes but most of all I want to get more potential out of the light bucket that is my 350p.  The thought that I don't have a good quality eyepiece to harness all the mirror up to a 5mm exit pupil bothers me.

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Stargazer_00

Stargazer_00

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Thanks Mark.  In truth I really can't say hand on heart that it is love, I think it might even be a curse :)  I'll keep an eye on the classifieds and see what comes up.

Im sure I saw a 21 Ethos pop up for £450 the other day on ABS.  Not sure if it's there still or not.  Not really sure what is a good price to pay second hand for most eyepieces really.  Is there a rule of thumb when it comes to TV eps?

I saw a 24 pan recently in the £150-£160 range and they're £260 new. 

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John

John

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TV eyepieces seem to sell used for 60%-70% of their new price although the new prices have dropped recently so that should be reflected in the used prices too. The main challenge is getting onto a popular and well priced TV item before others do !

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Damo636

Damo636

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When buying used, & depending on condition, I try to keep to within 65-75% of the full retail price. There are exceptions to the rule of course with some of the exotics, but generally speaking that's my rule of thumb. The 21 Ethos on ABS at £450 is at about £78% of the new price so not far away. If in mint condition, boxed with caps etc, I'd make an offer first but in the end probably stretch to it if I really wanted it.

PS. The seller is a SGL member.

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