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Absolute AV Beginner Help

hadyn42

By hadyn42
in EEVA - Reports

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hadyn42

hadyn42

Posted
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Hello All

I am thinking of taking the leap into AV astronomy..

The telescopes etc  that I hope to use in conjunction with a new/secondhand camera are:  SW200p, SW ED80, HEQ5 Pro tripod. Wndows 7 laptop computer. I also have a Canon EOS 350D with a 55mm and a  65mm to 300mm zoom. I have had a good look in and around this forum and I must say that I am a bit baffled, but I think there is a few camera's that could suite me.  I have between £300 to £400 to spend!

What I would like to do is to be able to have the ability to view and record our solar system for meteorites, DSO's, planets and of course the moon from the comfort of being  sort of indoors!  I am also  trying to decide between colour or mono type of camera, I am hoping that you guys out there could give me  pointers on choosing between the two and of course what AV camera that would suite me?

I see the Watech 902H Ultimate and 902H Supreme, is there any difference please?

Also I see the Sammy 3000, 4000  camera mentioned and the PD1, please help guys I am looking to try and get some equipment up and running in the next two to three weeks..... I also see  focal reducers mentioned and if  I was wanting any of these which ones/sizes what would suite me  best?

Sorry for so many questions all. Clear Sky's to all...............

Best regards, Hadyn - Isle of Man

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shirva

shirva

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Hi and welcome to the av forum hadyn.my kit is pretty similar to yours..you have a lot of options...if meteors your intrested in you have some good options with your kit....for capturing I would suggest two options. .sw ed80 a Samsung scb2000 , .5 focal reducer this combo works and a focal tube of 70mm...sorted......2nd..

A camera and a wide view lens in a cctv housing. ..

Carl reade uses this....the watec's are mono and great cameras for capturing meteors...I would suggest buying two cameras ..the pd1 from Phil dyer 100 pounds and a watec 902h for approx 130 pounds chap on ebay from Israel on regular selling them........the sw200 nobody managed to focus yet with av camera as you prob know its dslr straight to 2" on focusser don't think enough inwards travel available with av cam........for meteor set up ...you will require a usb video grabber under 20 pounds ebay,, bnc to rca connector,, rca cable. .and a capture software. ...the ufo capture software has a demo but full program is 120 pound.....hope this helps...one of other chaps will jump in on watec cams prob Michael morris.......Davy

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Carl Reade

Carl Reade

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Hi Hadyn, warm welcome to AV. With you budget and what your wanting to achieve I would think at least two cameras are on the cards as Davy says. For meteors,

1. Samsung 2000p with lens (secondhand if you can get one) £40 - 80

2. CCTV casing  (ebay) £20

3. CCTV power supply (ebay) £5

4. Frame grabber (price varies)

5. Software either UFOcapture or Handyavi both are time shift which means they capture the object before it happens and record until it finishes. (UFOcapture £120, Handyavi £38)

The remaining budget then is your DSO, moon camera generally the dearer the better. B/W cameras are generaly more sensitive than colour but colour is nice to have.

If you want to go for a scope camera first then spend most of the budget on it then build the meteor camera in slow time.

Focal reducers on reflecters just dont work but refracters they do with cameras.

Hopefully useful Carl

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hadyn42

hadyn42

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Hello Davy and Carl

Thank you very much indeed for your welcome and valuable information guys!!

Davy could you please send me a link to where I could buy the .5 focal reducer and also the focal tube of 70mm for my sw ed80. The reason I am asking is, that I am not too sure that you mean a focus extender tube or not?  I am okay with just getting my two telescopes up and ready for observing, but I think this av part of the hobby could be a bit of a steep learning curve for me guys!  So all the help out there the better...

Have a good weekend and of course clear skies!!

PS The skies over here very just after soon after midnight were really clear, managed to get a couple of observing in..

Best regards, Hadyn - Isle of Man

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shirva

shirva

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Hi hadyn...the .5 focal reducer is from ebay. .type in .5 focal reducer and its from the seller joy....2" focal tube is from first light optics..in accessories will see a picture of a 50 &80 mm 2" focal tube...80mm I'd one I have,, I use it with x2 Barlow good for moon work and handy bit of kit....Davy

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shirva

shirva

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Haydn ...

Honestly its no that bad when I first started on here there weren't many on but with help from Paul ( doctor d) I got basics in my head....I've made tons of boo boos and now I have a more practical knowledge of it...techno side I leave to Paul , Carl & Johnno lol sorry guys dropping you in it......we've done a lot of donkey work over the last year and made this a cracking wee forum and been picking up more guys along the way and the skill base is brilliant now ...too many to name them all....thanks guys...no better place to pick up knowledge on av.I'm constantly learning on here. .....Davy

..

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Dragon Man

Dragon Man

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G'day Haydn,

For my Video Astronomy I usually use an ED80.

The recommendation to use a Samsung SCB-2000 is a pretty good one.

I have the SCB-4000 (also called the SCC-A2333) and it is very good at Astro for a Security camera, but costs a hell of a lot more than the SCB-2000.

I have seen Screen Grabs from many users of the 2000 and it is surprisingly good at the job, especially considering its price!

I also have a mallincam Xtreme but it is way out of your budget.

If you can, get hold of a Focal Reducer anywhere from .04x to .06x.

Astro Video works best when Focal Reduced. It gives a wider Field of View, and a brighter image resulting in the ability to take shorter integrations and less noise.

As for capture software, a popular one is Gstar-Ex and it is Free. I use it myself and it is great. I use it when I am broadcasting on Night Skies Network.

It can be downloaded here: http://www.astroshop.com.au/guides/gstar/index.htm  Scroll down to GSTAR CAPTURE and click on 'Download GSTAR 4 capture'.

- You will need a 'C' mount to 1.25" nosepiece to attach to the front of the camera, which are widely available. Like this: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/adaptors/low-profile-125-nosepiece-c-threads.html

It allows the camera to be mounted into a telescope focuser.

- A simple 12 volt power supply. I use a 240v to 12v adaptor (about $8)

- S Video Grabber (about $20) like this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1pcs-easycap-video-grabber-capture-creator-dvd-maker-dc60-black-free-shipping/285997203.html

Make sure it is compatibale with your computer (XP, Win7, Win8)

That's about it, unless I have forgotten something  :tongue:

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Macavity

Macavity

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Davy could you please send me a link to where I could buy the .5 focal reducer and also the focal tube of 70mm for my sw ed80. The reason I am asking is, that I am not too sure that you mean a focus extender tube or not?  I am okay with just getting my two telescopes up and ready for observing, but I think this av part of the hobby could be a bit of a steep learning curve for me guys!  So all the help out there the better...

Re. focal reducer questions (a minor obsession of mine. lol): The main reason for using a focal reducer is the LIMITED "field of view" re. many video chips. The diagonal width of a so-called 1/2" VIDEO chip is approx. 8mm. So, the field of view is equivalent to a typical eyepiece of that focal length! In an ED80 (f=600mm) a "half-inch" chip gives about 0.75 deg. 

The good news is that focal reducers in filter-thread or C-type format are readily available. This means they can be added to the nose-piece of many video cameras and reinserted into a standard focusser. The only "fly in the ointment" is that the focal reducer will require extra *in-focus*. By that, your scope focusser will need sufficient inward travel (40mm typical) from nominal focal position. :)   

Unfortunately such is a bit hard to predict. For VIDEO astronomy, you won't generally need these sophisticated reducers or field-flatters. (We tend not to worry overmuch about a bit of field distortion - lol!) But you may eventually find the need to avail yourself with extension tubes (you don't really need the right-angle diagonal) and EXPERIMENT a bit. Welcome to the world of Video Astronomy. :p

Typical budget (filter thread) Focal Reducer to play with...

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/antares-0-5x-focal-reducer-1-25-quot_d5675.html

Some randomly useful extension tubes for refractors especially...

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/lumicon-adaptors_t5_s11_u37.html

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Dragon Man

Dragon Man

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Oh yeah, one more thing if you get an SCB-2000,

you will need to remove the factory IR filter.

It has it's cut-off point at the wrong place in the spectrum, and will hamper your efforts.

It is really easy to remove, and we can help you with it if you get that model camera.

We can talk you through it and it only takes a few minutes to do.

Easy peasy  :tongue:

Cheers

Ken

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hadyn42

hadyn42

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Hello Shirva (Davy) and guys.

Thank you all again for all your kind help..........

Davy, you mentioned a focal reducer, I have already got this piece of kit for my ED80, will it be any good at all with the PD1, Watec 902 or any of the Sammy range of AV camera's please?   Here is the link to the focal reducer: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reducersflatteners/skywatcher-focal-reducers.html

Kindest regards, Hadyn - Isle of Man

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shirva

shirva

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I don't know but would like to know myself, , I was going to buy one myself on recomendation from Steppenwolf( Steve Richards) its not only a focal reducer as you know, its a flatner as well, on the dslr shots I've seen comparisons with it looks great and its something I think personally will correct images from a cctv camera/ telescope rig...so when you have it ready would love to see the results. ..obviously a reducer without correcting lens would need to be used to compare dif ...you can get a flatner from flo for 70 pounds. ....using all this type of kit were not far away from lower end of ccd imaging in my opinion. ..think the pd1 would be ideal camera for you instead of scb2000. ...Davy

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Dragon Man

Dragon Man

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Hadyn, that particular 0.85x reducer will hardly show any Focal reduction. The least you realistically need is 0.7x before you start to see any advantage.

That one will change your ED80 from f7.5 down to f6.37.  Not much difference.

If you have any old small binoculars laying around you can make your own Focal Reducer.

If not, look for FR's like this: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reducersflatteners/celestron-f63-focal-reducer.html from that same supplier.

I am not familiar with the quality of the Celestron brand FR, but it does give a better reduction. Almost half.

There are several brands to choose from. Here's some 0.5x FR's:

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p676_Brennweitenreduzierer-0-5x---1-25--Filtergewinde.html

http://www.amazon.com/High-Point-0-5x-Focal-Reducer/dp/B0088O709E

http://agenaastro.com/antares-1-25-0-5x-focal-reducer.html

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Dragon Man

Dragon Man

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Ken ..the screws on the chip board on mine were a complete bar steward to get off .....big tip decent screw driver required. ...mine has been apart that many times it should have wing bolts fitted lol...Davy

Yes, they are tight little fellows aren't they!

The small philips screwdrivers with case hardened tips are best. Others strip the philips heads of the screwdrivers. 

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Dragon Man

Dragon Man

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And the good news Hadyn is that the ED80 has plenty of 'Inward' travel for Focal Reduction.

I have had mine doing mild to heavy focal reduction and still haven't run out of inward focuser travel.

If however you decide to use a Barlow for Planets etc you will need an extension tube. The ED80 doesn't have enough 'Outward' travel normally for barlowed work.

I made my 2" extension tube out of an unused 2" GSO Barlow. I just unscrewed the lens section, put it aside, and used the empty tube  :grin:

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hadyn42

hadyn42

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Hello Guys

Just to let you know that I have taken the plunge! Just ordered the PD1 complete kit from PD this morning. I have also ordered the 80mm focal extension tube and a .5x focal reducer. Well please be prepared for more questions guys. By the way Davy, I have had a look on the bay at the 902H you mentioned and I will maybe goes for that too. Its great being retired it doesn't drain your energy just your bank balance!!!!

Thank you again guys........

Kindest regards, Hadyn - IOM

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shirva

shirva

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Sorry think the pd1 is our ref to first cam on page...its pd colour..one with the blue stripe...I believe the full kit is camera. Nosecone.power supply (mains)..bnc connector. .rca cable and a usb video grabber. ...think one of the other guys went for full kit.....I already had all the kit so just bought camera....Davy

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shirva

shirva

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Great news hadyn...the focal tube is for use with the x2 Barlow. ..you won't be dissapointed with the pd cam its better than the Sammy in my opinion. ..I fitted an revelation ir lens to mine with the focal reducer just try both config to get focus. ...can't remember what went first but it makes a big diff on focal travel. ..Davy

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