Nott's County Council reversing street light shutoff :(

[laser_jock99]

I was in contact with one of the candidates and he did not want to even consider the evidence

one of his quotes was "everybody knows that crime increases when the lights are off"

But the evidence is the opposite happens! Antisocial behavoir was the biggest faller I think- yet Councils want streets lit where ASB is a problem- Duh!

[Pig]

I was watching a TV program where the street lights in the USA had movement sensors, this not only reduced energy costs but also reduced crimes such as burglary and car theft, the lights came on thus attracting attention.

Movement sensors also helped police track anyone running away from the scene of a crime as the lights lit the way up as the suspect ran past them :smiley:

[SteveNickolls]

Not very good is it? In the county elections earlier this year the winning side had this U-turn already planned as a manifesto item. It doesn't matter therefore here if there has been an increase in crime or thefts or not as minds are made up amongst the ruling majority at County Hall. I have this week let the relevant project leader at the county know of the move proposed by Leeds to start their lighting turn off and posed the irony of the Notts U-turn on street lighting. The council is not engaging in any public debate so the fears can be properly aired and the facts can be told. The local BBC radio has not helped publicise the facts either. Meanwhile our over bright streets have been the place for two knife incidents (one fatal) and a gang fight. I can imagine the public outrage if these had taken place in dark locations but these places were all lit up like Christmas trees with a cctv installation at the site of the fatality. I think the future here will be to get the new leds (good or bad?) sometime (whenever). I don't expect any discussions. One caveat is that the Notts Scheme was the most comprehensive one I've read and most fair in allowing lights to be put back on where there were genuine concerns/evidence. Pity that. Cheers, Steve

[SteveNickolls]

They cited as evidence some residential properties that has the lead stolen from around bay windows - because of the darkness as a result of the lights being switched off!

It's not good news for me if they do it. Even worse in fact since they said they will install LED lights which my IDAS will not work with Maybe they will aim the beam at the floor and not in all directions, thats my only hope....

Hi, on our road in the NG4 area a relative living two doors away had their lead bay roof stolen (the only one stolen on the road). They have a street light at the left hand side of their drive and which lights up the property nicely. I expect no crimes are recorded to include details such as if the area was well lit. Ho hum.

Cheers,

Steve

[Scosmico]

Seems to me that councils listen more to rumor and paranoia than they do facts and figures. I'd love to know how many accidents have occurred during the "test switch off" compared to a similar period prior to that. They never give you those figures do they....

It's not good news Steve...... I hope Leicestershire doesn't follow suit.....

Councils are looking for votes. If they think they will pleasure a fewer voters by doing that, they will. Statistics don't give votes. True realpolitik, I am afraid.

[hugobugo]

Do you feel safer on a street that is lit or unlit? Its all about perception and if people feel safer with lights on even if the savings for an authority are significant then lights will stay on.

Not great for those fighting to see something through that orange glare.

Our town seem to be going white replacing the sodium lights which is better, isn't it?

[PeterW]

Now we have had switch offs I would hope that someone would coordinate crime stats across the switched off and other control areas and published the results in a peer reviewed journal.... Get REAL evidence out there. Crime stats seem to be readily available thesedays.

If you are stuck with lights make sure they are better than full cutoff... Keep the light to where it is needed to maximise the crime fighting/grass growing potential of them

Cheers

Peter

[RikM]

Our town seem to be going white replacing the sodium lights which is better, isn't it?

No, not at all I am afraid. Potentially much worse. You can filter out the yellow sodium and mercury light but white LED's, you can't. The only good thing about the LED lights is that they don't spill so much light sideways and upwards. If you are away from the LED lights, it will probably seem better, but if you are in direct view of them, it will be horrible.

[Scooot]

Write to your MPs, the country needs a national coordinated response. If it doesn't help we're no worse off

[JamesF]

Writing to your MP citing the fact that the evidence from elsewhere runs contrary to the council's stated position seems like a good star, as Richard says.

I wonder if it might also be possible to get some interesting dialogue going in one of the local papers along the lines of "the council wants to spend more of the taxpayers money to take actions which are likely to increase crime levels (compared with when the lights are off, as now) in order to win votes"

James

[Scooot]

Writing to your MP citing the fact that the evidence from elsewhere runs contrary to the council's stated position seems like a good star, as Richard says.

I wonder if it might also be possible to get some interesting dialogue going in one of the local papers along the lines of "the council wants to spend more of the taxpayers money to take actions which are likely to increase crime levels (compared with when the lights are off, as now) in order to win votes"

James

Good idea James, this is a very powerful forum, and most of us have the same views on this. Any other ideas would be great, along the lines of trying to influence actions in our favour.

[Tddun]

My area is due to switch off 1st of Novemeber. The money has already been spent installing sensors onto the street lights, however they have now decided a final decision on the plans need to be made next week.. am worried the whole thing will be scrapped. But hey, at least it's only all that time and money down the drain if the plans are ditched. Can't find the logic there for the life of me.. Spend the money.. then make a final decision..

[laser_jock99]

You can easily get the crime stats for your area by typing the post code to this website

http://www.police.uk/

This is how I found out crime had fallen 30% in my area since the switch off last October. I notice the local anti's have been fairly quite about ' massive crime increase' ever since. They now focus their excitement on increased 'fear of crime'. The correct clinical word for this is paranoia. 

[Cath]

Can't find the logic there for the life of me..

Wrong planet for finding logic Tddun. May I suggest Vulcan ?

[LeeB]

spotting a criminal carrying a torch in the dark is far easier than spotting a criminal in a well lit area without one. Is it me or is that common sense. One old lady getting mugged is probably the reason, blame the dark and the council, not the low life that mugged her.

[JamesF]

I wonder if some people who want the lights back on aren't just scared of the dark, because they've never really experienced it.

James

[Cath]

I wonder if some people who want the lights back on aren't just scared of the dark, because they've never really experienced it.

I expect most people are afraid of the dark these days. So I myself would say yes. Light can be very comforting for a lot of people.

[Scooot]

I think its more simple than that, they're just having something taken away that they've got used to having, they've paid their taxes etc......

[SteveNickolls]

You can easily get the crime stats for your area by typing the post code to this website

 

http://www.police.uk/

 

This is how I found out crime had fallen 30% in my area since the switch off last October. I notice the local anti's have been fairly quite about ' massive crime increase' ever since. They now focus their excitement on increased 'fear of crime'. The correct clinical word for this is paranoia.

Thanks for this link laser_jock99, I'll be keeping a close check on the police stats on local crime.

Cheers,

Steve