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Nott's County Council reversing street light shutoff :(

kirkster501

By kirkster501
in The Astro Lounge

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DeepThought

DeepThought

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They say they have "listened to concerns about crime and road accidents". Has anyone actually compiled any genuine statistics regarding crime and road accident levels during the switch off so that the decision is based upon fact?

If not then I suspect this is just a local authority bowing and scraping to overly vocal minorities for entirely political reasons.

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brantuk

brantuk

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Seems to me that councils listen more to rumor and paranoia than they do facts and figures. I'd love to know how many accidents have occurred during the "test switch off" compared to a similar period prior to that. They never give you those figures do they....

It's not good news Steve...... I hope Leicestershire doesn't follow suit.....

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DeepThought

DeepThought

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Seems to me that councils listen more to rumor and paranoia than they do facts and figures. I'd love to know how many accidents have occurred during the "test switch off" compared to a similar period prior to that. They never give you those figures do they....

It's not good news Steve...... I hope Leicestershire doesn't follow suit.....

I think the problem is that we're actually the minority here, the general consensus among the public seems to be that street lighting is a good thing. I'm not sure what facts and figures could be used to change that.

This is a shame. If my children had to grow up never seeing a forest or even a tree then there would be outrage, the fact they'll never see the milky way doesn't seem to concern anyone though.

We need the middle England NIMBYs on board, now there's a group of people that can get policies changed in spite of the general consensus.

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Naemeth

Naemeth

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I think the problem is that we're actually the minority here, the general consensus among the public seems to be that street lighting is a good thing. I'm not sure what facts and figures could be used to change that.

This is a shame. If my children had to grow up never seeing a forest or even a tree then there would be outrage, the fact they'll never see the milky way doesn't seem to concern anyone though.

We need the middle England NIMBYs on board, now there's a group of people that can get policies changed in spite of the general consensus.

When I was in Norwich, I looked at the crime statistics from the months before and months after part night lighting, and do you know what I found? A consistent 25% drop in crime when the part night lighting was in place.

The fact is, at least in Norwich (and I could probably do the same for any city with part night lighting) that street lighting at night actually increases crime, and switching the lights off in the middle of the night decreases crime and saves money :).

Can't see why some people can't or won't see that.

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DeepThought

DeepThought

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When I was in Norwich, I looked at the crime statistics from the months before and months after part night lighting, and do you know what I found? A consistent 25% drop in crime when the part night lighting was in place.

The fact is, at least in Norwich (and I could probably do the same for any city with part night lighting) that street lighting at night actually increases crime, and switching the lights off in the middle of the night decreases crime and saves money :).

Can't see why some people can't or won't see that.

I suspect the problem is that people have been conditioned to feel safer when they are under lights, to a degree i'm probably guilty of this myself, certainly I'd feel a bit apprehensive about walking down a dark alley in my city, irrespective of the actual danger.

You can probably blame certain aspects of the media for this, they won't be happy until we all believe that we'll be attacked rabid badgers just for putting the bins out after sunset.

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Naemeth

Naemeth

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I suspect the problem is that people have been conditioned to feel safer when they are under lights, to a degree i'm probably guilty of this myself, certainly I'd feel a bit apprehensive about walking down a dark alley in my city, irrespective of the actual danger.

You can probably blame certain aspects of the media for this, they won't be happy until we all believe that we'll be attacked rabid badgers just for putting the bins out after sunset.

People have indeed been conditioned to feel that way and it is a shame. I think the fear of crime is actually very significant compared to the actual number of crimes being committed.

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kirkster501

kirkster501

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They cited as evidence some residential properties that has the lead stolen from around bay windows - because of the darkness as a result of the lights being switched off!

It's not good news for me if they do it. Even worse in fact since they said they will install LED lights which my IDAS will not work with :( Maybe they will aim the beam at the floor and not in all directions, thats my only hope....

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Naemeth

Naemeth

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They cited as evidence some residential properties that has the lead stolen from around bay windows - because of the darkness as a result of the lights being switched off!

It's not good news for me if they do it. Even worse in fact since they said they will install LED lights which my IDAS will not work with :( Maybe they will aim the beam at the floor and not in all directions, thats my only hope....

Do they have proof they wouldn't have been stolen with light there? No, of course they don't. The two have no proven correlation.

If light stopped crimes being committed there wouldn't be any crimes at all in the day time, and very few in the summer months. Fact is there are crimes committed in the day.

I guess people can find any excuse to get what they want :(...

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foundaplanet

foundaplanet

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Life is generally just becoming a living soap opera these days isn't it as reality gets brushed further and further under the carpet amongst the silly squabbling of them that like to seen as doing the right thing, with the trivial reasons often outweighing the ones that matter. So long as the illusion is still holding up and granny goes to bingo everything is just lovely... :rolleyes:

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DeepThought

DeepThought

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Uninformed attention seeking seems to be the weapon of choice these days.

Take the recent "anti-fracking" protests in Sussex as an example, as far as I can tell, the protest group is comprised entirely of either people who have travelled in especially for a fight, or local people who are ultimately only concerned about whether it devalues their house, yet still they get coverage on the national news.

I guess we're going to have to start chaining ourselves to railings or climbing cranes dressed as Batman to get noticed.

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Adrian Condon

Adrian Condon

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Hi,

The attendees at Galloway 3 Star Party, listened to an excellent talk on light pollution by Keith Muir.

I was impressed by the role the Forestry Commission played in promoting dark skies.

The LED lighting was better in crime detection because it didn't cast an orange tinge on the offenders,

so the cameras get more usable pictures with skin colour and clothes easier to identify.

Street lighting can have sensors to detect movement so the lights can be switched on for a few seconds.

With the lights properly installed more light is aimed at the street and not as currently aimed to the

heavens.

The story is a great success, astronomy in Dumfries and Galloway is a joy on clear nights....

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/dumfries-and-galloway-install-stargazer-friendly-lights-1-2889142

My council switch the lights off at 23:30.

I believe that crime is lower. You could submit FOI to the Northamptonshire Council requesting their

evidence for an increase in crime over the periods the lights have been switched off.

Incidentally, lead has disappeared off buildings in lit areas, so I suspect the council is being dismissive.

I favour switching the lights off, 23:30 gives people a chance to get home from disappearing pubs!

Cheers

Adrian

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DeepThought

DeepThought

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another comment was gangs of youths congregate when the lights are not on especially in summer

I ask you

Ahh, "gangs of youths", my favourite of all the bogeymen.

I was young once, and I don't recall ever seeking out dark areas in which to congregate, quite the opposite in fact.

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Adrian Condon

Adrian Condon

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Hi Steve,

Apparently, switching the lights off does not increase crime according to Herts Police.

I am a Neighbourhood Watch Co-ordinator and have meetings with the local police, they report no increase in crime. The local newspaper has actually published a piece on this.....

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/9512451.Police_claim_no_evidence_crime_will_increase_despite_no_street_lights/

Trust the person who thinks otherwise must have just come out of the Ark!

Remember intellect is limited but stupidity isn't.......

Cheers

Adrian

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Wyvern

Wyvern

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Steve,

Challenge your council to produce these "increased crime" figures under freedom of information. Do so as well for your local police authority. I strongly suspect you'll find no such increase and quite possibly a decrease. Again, it's people's perception of dark = crime...... this does not compute.

As has been stated, criminals need light so see what their up to, what looks more suspicious, someone walking around a well lit industrial unit or someone shining a torch around in the dark? ........

or is it just me!!!?

Regards ..... and keep fighting... :angry5:

Les

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Ibbo!

Ibbo!

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Posted

I am well aware of the stats and reports from not just this country but from the USA ,Australia etc

the problem is I cannot prove that here, as they did not roll out the planed turn off last year.

The length of time it took him to reply he did not look at the links I provided

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