starter accessories for £100

[phenz]

New to the hobby and first time poster.

I've been wanting to get into astronomy for a long time and have decided to get a telescope. After a week of searching and evaluation. I've decided to get a Skywatcher heritage 130p as I think it is the best balance between performance and usability. Something that I won't feel burdened by, always a pleasure to use and perfect to enjoy.

I'm getting it for my birthday (in 3 weeks) and am filling in my time between now and then with research. Currently reading turn left at orion and i'm going to go to the library to pick up some books on broader astronomy.

Reading here, I've come across a few important questions, which I've tried to figure out for myself but becomes a little tricky as I don't even own a telescope yet. Hopefully I'll be able to get some answers that don't pose more questions.

1. Collimation. Obviously Astro Baby writes the book on this, are all (non laser) chesires the same, is the cheapest the best? the same with colmination caps? one size fit all?

2. lenses. I understand that the lenses my telescope comes with (10mm & 25mm) although adequate for viewing, might not give the best experience. With The Wharthog's 'eyepiece tutorial' that is stated on this site, it recommends (for a f/5 scope) an 8mm. 18mm and 25mm + x2 Barlow. But I really don't know which makes are good and what to avoid.

3. Charts. Once i get the scope I will point it at the moon and I don't know where to take it from there, are there free resources that can tell me what i should be looking at for the time, date and location i'm searching from? will i be able to find them with out a 'go to' scope?

My question really comes down to, I want to get the most out of my telescope and could easily end up spending more on a few lenses and books than I did on the scope.

So what I really need advice on is, that if I buy a telescope, 5.1 inches, for £130 and want to spend £100 on accessories. Were should I be investing and what should I get?

All suggestions are welcome.

Wishing us all clear skies, especially on the 28th of September (my birthday/first light)

Thanks

[RT65CB-SWL]

Hi phenz and welcome to SGL.

I can answer a two of your questions.

Q2. lenses/eyepieces - Many SGL members are recomending BST e/p's from "Sky's the Limit". Alan the propieter is honest and he wil not rip you off. He will answers any questions before you buy if you want to phone him. Here is the link: http://www.skysthelimit.org.uk/

Q3. Charts. Again many SGL members are recomending "Stellarium", (It is free software). Also a planisphere, (not software or free I'm afraid)

Hope this helps.

Clear skies.

[rowan46]

Welcome to SGL in case I forget happy birthday. In answer to the collimation question If you collimate it correctly a cheap cheshire is as good as an expensive laser it's a little more involved but not much. Get time under the stars first before you buy eyepieces. warthogs tutorial is excellent (I use it myself) but there's a saying in astronomy when it comes to eyepieces that says "your mileage may vary" it means that eyepieces are personal and what suits one may not suit another. The time to upgrade an eyepiece is when you can see that it's not doing it for you.

here is the link to a free virtual moon atlas http://ap-i.net/avl/en/start

and here is a link to a free planetarium software called stellarium http://www.stellarium.org/

As to what to invest in get yourself a collimater a cheap cheshire will do nicely

http://www.firstligh...g-eyepiece.html

a red torch so that you can read your chart or book http://www.argos.co....ber/9349865.htm

and maybe a copy of this http://www.whsmith.c...t/9780521153973

clear skies to you and have fun. when you have a little more starlight in your eyes come back and we'll spend the rest of your money for you and keep asking questions thats how you get answers

[scarp15]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

To begin with, you are going about everthing in the right way. The first advice which is always given, and costs nothing is to down load www.stellarium.org

You could start by spending the money on

cheshire collimating eyepiece

Telrad

Planisphere

Red torch

For everything else, it is best to take your time and broaden your depth of knowledge, prior to making further purchases. When you do decide to purchase, for example, eyepieces, you could look into Astro Buy and Sell UK.

Enjoy your scope.

[Prador]

You could also get a reasonable set of binoculars and still have plenty of change of scope specific stuff.

Glasgow has an astro society that might be worth checking out.

http://theasg.org.uk/

Dave

[Ally8446]

Welcome to SGL.

I'm going to suggest you DON'T buy the heritage for £130 and £100 on accessories. Instead spend £200 approximately on the skywatcher skyliner 150 dobsonian. Or if you can stretch to it, £280, for the 200mm. You may want to consider a second hand purchase.

You'll get far more aperture for your money and far better spent. Only my opinion of course. Don't be in too much of a rush to buy accessories before you actually know what you need. Clear skies.

Ally

[phenz]

Thanks for the quick replies.

I've never heard of a Telrad. My telescope comes with a red dot finder, does this serve a similar job? from what i understand its a rough aim, then a fine hunt to find what you're looking for. I've had no direct experience with this so don't know how much help, time or hair to pull out i'll need to help with this quest.

Are all plansipheres the same (other than north/south (if thats even a thing)) are some better than others? I have an iphone so I was wondering if there might be something that would serve a similar purpose for that, whilst also being back lit. Although with the insistence of a red torch i feel that might be a hinderence?

Its good to know that I don't need to buy other lens pieces right away, but if i do ever want to expand I know i can trust the Sky's The Limit. I had seen the shop and wondered about it's integrity, that was before I had discovered the wealth of knowledge here and glowing reviews you offer to his service.

I hear a lot about binoculars being a great tool for astronomers, but i really don't understand their purpose. If I have reasonable eyesight and a telescope, why would i need the burden of unsteady, heavy, expensive, binoculars, are there things that i will miss out on by not owning a pair? I read a lot that a great way to get into the hobby is to use your current pair of binos but is buying a pair a reasonable suggestion if you don't have any interest in bird watching?

The astro society is based at my old university where I've taken many space based sciences but more to do with escape velocities and orbital equations than finding pretty things to look at. I'll be sure to look them up once I have a grasp of what I'm doing and need more specific advice, or to try other people eye pieces.

When i said £100 as a goal for accessories, that was: do i need a collimination cap £5, cheshire £25, and a Barlow (the skies the limit has 4 for £20-£25... which one?) and an 8mm eye piece about £50 if i knew which one to go for... moon filter... ambient light filter... then i've doubled the cost of my scope before using it. Just trying to get a handle of what I actually need before my first week (realistically 6 months) of stargazing. I'm an indecisive person with a fairly short, yet intense attention span and if i can get all the equipment and knowledge i'll need in this month, its a a wealth that will see me through without having to start the research from scratch when the time strikes me to renew my interest.

Thanks you all for what I know will be the start of a happy relationship. Its great to know that there is such an active, UK based forum for answers. If only there was a forum like this for all life's questions, really a credit to the internet.

[rowan46]

you may not need the telrad it does as you say the same job as the red dot finder (rdf) just a lot better. The reason a red light torch is recommended is because its better for keeping your dark adapted vision white light will destroy it but a dim red light will not destroy it too much. The link I gave to the cheshire is all you need it has the collimation cap built in. Ally has good advice about the scope, the heritage is a fine scope but bigger is better. (providing you can get it to where it needs to be to do the most good) If you are observing from your back garden it may suit you to go bigger.

The only things you need now are the cheshire and the red light everything else can wait till you have some starlight under your belt . iphone apps are very useful but I think the beginners guide book turn left at orion will suit you better.

Binoculars are a useful addition to an astronomers arsenal, they are quick to deploy easy to use and very portable so either spend the money on the scope or get binoculars. Very cheap binoculars are not a great observing tool (better than nothing perhaps) but not great.

Don't be in a hurry to spend all your money on eyepieces and barlows. Barlows especially need to be good and a good one will eat up most of your available cash. There are some decent eyepieces called the starguider from skies the limit and they are a big step up from stock eyepieces but enjoy your scope for a while before you spend. astronomy is about observing and learning rather than collecting, learn what you can from the supplied equipment before shelling out for more. But by all means be a window shopper until you have more experience that's a form of learning too its also fun researching equipment.

[phenz]

The reason that I'm going for the 130p skywatcher heritage is because I want the experience to be fun, spontaneous, easy, yet rewarding. I'm very new to this hobby, I grew up in the country side, no lights for 5 miles, seen the stars every night for my entire childhood, I've seen many shooting stars by accident, then moved to the city, I've studied astrophysics, fallen in love with many Hubble pictures, seen the stars from the volcanic crater of Mount Teide in Tenerife and seen Saturn and her rings though a telescope in the valley of the kings in Luxor. When I first started looking and researching telescopes, I immediately decided I was going to get the Orion Skyquest XT10i push-to dobsonian, before I realised I'd ultimately spend more time getting it out of the house and setting it up than I'd spend looking at the stars. Then I decided to go for slightly smaller scopes that would be a little more easier to move, 6 inch and equatorial mounts, go-to, push to, not so cumbersome, quite a bit of set up time and quite powerful. But then i saw a review where a guy carried a 5.1'' telescope in one hand and set it up in seconds - and knew that was what I'm looking for - convenience.

From my reading of what people have said in this thread and others in the forum I get the impression that only once you have experienced the sky and observed the limit of your telescope that you can understand the benefits and criteria for seeing farther. Is this going to happen very quickly with the skywatcher heritage 130p?

I've read many reviews of many telescopes and realise the viewing expectation and experience is very subjective and that the circumstances of the night dictate the image quality more than the quality of the telescope. It seems like a great night with an average telescope is about the same as an average night with a great telescope.

Will a 6 or 8 inch telescope give me a considerably better viewing experience than a 5.1 inch and are there any as easy to store/set up and use on a whim?

[rowan46]

yes an 8" will give substantially better views but as you say it will not be nearly as portable as the heritage but have a look at the specs and some reviews. no electronics so it sets up nearly as fast as the heritage and is a lot more comfortable to use http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

[phenz]

I really do like it, but then i'm just back to pushing it just a little further and a little further until I end up with something that resembles the 300p and then I'm looking at EQ mounts that would fit it and I'm off to the races...

Will i be able to see impressive sights with a 130? the rings on saturn, the bands on jupiter, maybe a nebula or a galaxy ?

I know whats up there, just its really hard to work out what the actual view will be from youtube and people trying their best to video things with iphones and point and shoot cameras.

[ronin]

I would also say consider the 150P, don't consider bigger for now as the 150P would be a scope that you could use and be comfortable with for a number of years.

The 150P comes in the longer focal ratio form and that is a relevant factor. You get a bit more aperture, the scope tends to be more stable so less collimation, the longer focal length (slower f number) means it is able to get along with eyepieces easier. I do appreciate it costs more but the 130P will I think need a table to stand it on, so you would have a 130P and a table to carry round, equally you could in time want the 150 to be lifted up.

General accessories, collimator and a couple of reasonable eyepieces. That will be enough to keep the scope maintained and you seeing things. In the future consider things that you find you want or need.

Charts can come from the net, really for the first 2 months just get used to finding, looking at and understanding the weird way things are presented. One book you may consider is The Monthly Sky Guide, it shows the prominent constellation for each month with the various DSO's etc in each, and has a couple of good moon charts (only A4) in it as well.

[cotterless45]

A 200 Dob will last you for ages. If you do get the capable 130 you'll soon exhaust it's short ota and aperture and need more magnification. A 10mm ep will give you x65 in the 130 and x120 in the 200. Useable limit for average skies will be an 8mm which will give you x150 in the 200, enough to see the polar ice caps on Mars, festoons on the belts of Jupiter and bands on the Saturn's ring.

in addition you'll get faint galaxies and nebulae. These are possible with the 130, but so much better with the 200.

If I had to choose then it would be the 200 and stick with that. It'll see 99% of targets and for the money is great.

As your interest grows , I think that you'll struggle with the 130.

Eq mounts, GOTO, refractors and big aperture aren't needed if you just need an enjoyable user friendly great scope,

Nick.

[madsarmy]

Phenz. I started with a Celestron 130eq. You will get to see the rings of Saturn, Jupiters bands, nebula & galaxy's, but it is all down to the viewing conditions on the night. It can take a bit of time to start to make out any detail. Some night's even after 15-20mins of looking at Jupiter i still couldn't see the bands due to atmospheric conditions. Don't expect miracles from it or you will be left dissapointed.

I used my 130 for two years & it was good enough to make my interest in astronomy turn into a passion.

If you find stargazing is your thing buy the best quality eyepieces you can. Then at a later date they can be used on your next scope when you upgrade.

I would recommend getting a Telrad before any eyepieces. Nothing more frustrating than not being able to find anything due to a useless finder. Once bought you will never be without it.

This hobby takes a fair bit of patience & what seems a steep learning curve. The most important thing is don't set yourself big goals when you go out viewing. It takes a lot of time to learn your way around the sky. If you have a smart phone or tablet i can recommened an app called Mobile Observatory (£3.99) it is a great help for finding your way round the sky. If you get a Telrad it has the circles in the program which really helps finding galaxy's etc.

Most of all just enjoy the night sky. Nothing better for making you feel so insignificant.

[wookie1965]

I have the 150p and couldn't be happier with it, the one thing i would say to buy that has been invaluable to me is a book called Turn Left To Orion it has pointed me to a lot of DSO`s the Planets are not hard to find.

+1 for Alan at Skys The Limit i have bought a number of items from him all been excellent and customer care is beyond reproach.

[AndyWB]

My question really comes down to, I want to get the most out of my telescope and could easily end up spending more on a few lenses and books than I did on the scope.

Yup, I did, when I got my 130p. Let's start with your questions, then talk aperture.

Collimation - yes, go for a cheshire, not a laser - they're useful, but Cheshire collimators (technically, Cheshire/sight tube combinations) do it all. I have both; I only use the laser to check the primary after transport. Can't say that I saw a benefit to more expensive ones, but I didn't really compare much.

I got the BSTs. I started with the 5 and 12mm ones. The 5mm is good for the moon and planets (Jupiter or Saturn on a cold, still night - wow!) , but I rarely use it otherwise. I love the 12. I've since got the 8 and 18mm too - and while I use the 8mm a lot, the 18 sees less use. It's good - just I tend to jump from 30mm to 12 or 8mm. And Alan is very helpful. I'll get the 15mm eventually!

Don't get a telrad for the 130p - I don't think it's a big enough scope, and the truss bit means you'd have to fit it at the bottom. The Red Dot Finder is fine, particularly if you've dark skies. And if you get a 30mm Vixen eyepiece then the field of view is slightly larger than the 2-degree telrad ring anyway.

Regarding charts - I used Turn Left At Orion as a 'guidebook', and I find the Sky and Telescope Pocket Atlas excellent as a map. I've not compared any others though, to be honest.

So, binos - why have them? I got mine 'cos the 130p is too small to fit a finder scope to, and 'cos I could just leave them in the car. Honestly, I suggest wait and see if you feel you need them. They can be useful under light pollution - they've a nice, wide field of view, and help me see dim stars that I'm trying to use as guideposts. When I'm somewhere dark, though, they're rarely used.

Don't get filters just yet. Or if you really must, make it a UHC one for nebulae.

So, the aperture question. Yes, the rule of thumb is 'more is better', and the 130p is more limited that the 150p or 200p. I won't deny that I've a hankering after a 250px, and that's after, oh, about 6 months. However, I've seen quite a lot with the 130p. I'm at 60-something messier objects (granted, some of them dim), and have seen some beautiful nebulae - under dark skies. From under the light pollution of Reading - well, it's possible to see the brighter objects, but it is harder work. Dim objects are gone, though.

I've heard it said that proper darkness is like doubling your aperture - not having used a 250 I couldn't say, but the views are markedly better; I could believe it. So for me, portability - to get to dark sky - matters, as does storage space (I live in a flat). I did think that it was likely I'd want a much larger aperture scope after a year or two, but I figured the 130p was a) a moderately cheap intro to see if I enjoyed this, and b.) if I did get a large scope there still might be a place for a little one to just grab and cart outside, or to stick in the car if I was going walking for the weekend, etc.. Big scopes are... big. As a rule.

All that said, the 200p seems to offer excellent value.

In short, the 130p is capable, and is probably better than what Messier had. I imagine I will eventually get a bigger scope; I don't think I'll get rid of the 130p in a hurry.

So, I guess it comes down to how far do you have to move it, where can you store it, and are you willing to accept that you might want to buy a bigger scope later. If you've the storage space, dark sky where you are or easy transport, and budget, the 200p would be better value. If you need small size, portability, quick set up or just a cheaper intro, well, I'm still pleased with the 130p and impressed with what it has shown me. But do expect that you might hanker after more aperture before too long - but I gather that's normal for astronomers with any scope.

I'm hoping to compare other scopes at Astrocamp later, so my opinions could've changed by Tuesday.

[AlexB67]

All has been said already. I think the 130 is an excellent starter scope. I've had mine since May and still happy with it not feeling an immediate rush to want to upgrade, but do see myself doing so within the next year.

When I started out I wasn't sure how much I would like astronomy and at the time I had a budget, a combination of what I was prepared to spend and could afford. To put it into context, I bought a fairly basic camera the year before and never felt a need to upgrade it, I like it for what it is, take a few pictures now and then, but it will never become a hobby, so you never know how things pan out. For me that purchase was right instead of buying a big expensive SLR.

With hind sight now if I had known I would like astro as much as I do, compared to my try with photography, my advice to anyone new would be to recommend the 6 or the 8 inch Dob as the ideal started scope for visual observing, if the size/weight is not an issue and you are willing to stretch that far. Likely they'll last you a few years ( certainly the latter one I imagine ), but it all depends how you will be affected by aperture fever once you get started, something that seems to bite more with some compared to others

Good luck with whatever you buy.

[stargixxer]

Some useful comments there, hopefully help me make my mind up too!

[Schorhr]

Hello welcome future Heritage 130p owner, as most has been said, and the topic has been bumpred, I just drop by to say that you could get a 16,49€ (shipped) barlow if the set does not include one, and you'll be set for many observation nights. With the 10mm you will reach 130x with the barlow.

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/200607942106?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1

Later on get a 30mm or better 32mm Plössl (from 15€ shipped) as these give you the maximum field on a 1.25" focuser (40mm plössl eyepieces just have a narrower field of view).

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/360459084615?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1

The cheap one lacks of an eye cup, but works well at an amazing price. 32mm TS Plössl is a nice ep, but then I'd even save up for a 24mm 70deg wide angle eyepiece as it still shows the maximum field on 1.25" focusers and is stunning to use/view through.

The tmb/hr planetary are great, as suggested, and perform better then the 32€ wide angle uwa eyepieces (at least under 20mm I hear), but those have a bit more visible field and the 6mm + barlow covers most high magnification uses (216x), great for planets- but be aware over 200x may not be possible every night due to seeing conditions and when the planets stand too low (lots of air to look through).

66 deg uwa http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=140717462903

better at a f/5 telescope 58deg hr p http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=160858485287

A cheap Cheshire - sight tube for 20-30 euro will be sufficient, dos not suffer the adjustment-issues cheaper lasers have, but for starters you could live with a self made collimation cap or 35mm film can collimation tool, building instructions are available on multiple sites and forums.

You will often read that your telescope can magnify up to 260x, and while this can work (good seeing, clear skies, object up high, good colimation and mirror) I can rarely use my 2.5mm eyepiece - so a 5-6mm eyepiece and a barlow is more versatile ;-)

It's a great little telescope but it has it's limits. For deepsky observation it will just show the first details, much more then most beginner telescopes, but a 8" is really stunning if you ever do plan on upgrading ;-)

Have fun and keep us posted! Don't get carried away with accessories, start simple, and even a not well collimated telescope with cheap eyepieces will show a nice moon...

[Watchman]

A 200 Dob will last you for ages. If you do get the capable 130 you'll soon exhaust it's short ota and aperture and need more magnification. A 10mm ep will give you x65 in the 130 and x120 in the 200. Useable limit for average skies will be an 8mm which will give you x150 in the 200, enough to see the polar ice caps on Mars, festoons on the belts of Jupiter and bands on the Saturn's ring.

in addition you'll get faint galaxies and nebulae. These are possible with the 130, but so much better with the 200.

If I had to choose then it would be the 200 and stick with that. It'll see 99% of targets and for the money is great.

As your interest grows , I think that you'll struggle with the 130.

Eq mounts, GOTO, refractors and big aperture aren't needed if you just need an enjoyable user friendly great scope,

Nick.

Posts like this make me incredibly happy I took these guys advice and bought the 200p dob.

[stevend]

I got my first scope a few months ago and the advice I would give (that I also got from SGL) is do not buy any accessories for at least a month. Spend that time getting to know your scope and finding your way around the sky. After that period you will have a better idea as to your early purchases.

[deerdude68]

I would use this atlas its free and is pretty good. the second edition is on a4 paper that might be a problem for you but should keep you happy, as far as EPs go just look at televue.com

clear skies

happy birthday.

[deerdude68]

by the way your owners manual should say this but collimation is very simple and you do not need an 80$ tool to do it all you got to do is put a collimation cap on and on the bottom  of your tube you should see six knobs it may very with the scope but in general there should be three thin screws and three thick short ones and the short ones are the ones you do the adjusting with and the skinny tall ones loosen it so you can adjust it. after you loosen it up with the skinny ones use the thick ones to make the adjustment and just get the center dot in the doughnut.

[brantuk]

Hi Phenz and welcome to SGL

The best advice I can give is join a local astronomy society and get along to a few observing sessions before you buy any equipment at all. Folks will be very friendly and you'll get to chat about scopes and have a look through several different types. This will be invaluable in helping you to decide what to get.

Or visit a star party where you'll see examples of just about every size and type of scope available. Kelling Heath is just around the corner (4th-6th Oct). It's the biggest star party in the UK (main day Sat 5th) with trade stands offering discounts on scopes and gear, astronomy talks, second hand stalls, and around 300 pitches full of astronomers with scopes and equipment.

Either way you'll get loads of advice and a sound understanding of what scope to buy. You really can't beat seeing the gear with your own eyes and discussing your requirements with experienced folks. You might even walk away with a nicely discounted birthday present.

[rob0971]

Would a s/h 200p not be more desirable? If its not for you, you could probably get your money back more easily than with a 130?