Starting out and feeling very lost.

[RK75]

I've always had a mild fascination with the night sky and have decided I should try to take up stargazing as a hobby. Not knowing how its going to work out, I've bought myself a pair of binoculars (17 X 50) with tripod. I don't live in a dark area but I can see a fair few stars without the binoculars, and a lot more with.

The trouble I'm having is learning constellations and finding them. I've downloaded an app on my phone that shows the position of the constellations, and know the shapes of some of them, but I can't for the life of me recognise them in the sky, or where I can recognise one (usually the lough) I can't use it to locate anything else, even with reference to other materials such as star charts.

Does anyone have any pointers that might help? I'm trying not to get frustrated, but when I read that X is easy to find by following Y, I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks for any guidance.

[Philk_80]

Hi RK75

Best to be patient - Some of the guys on here have probably forgot more than you'll probably ever need to know about astronomy.

I have found the simplest way was to use the naked eye first - stand in the garden with your app or star chart and start from one constellation (i.e Plough) and make out the shape. Don't move till you are satisfied that you can 'see it'. Then move on to the next one. Don't rush, you need to know your constellations in order to start proper stargazing.

I would advise against a phone app and download Stellarium and use that to increase your understanding of the sky (easy to do when there's clouds - doesn't hinder the learning)

I also would advise to go out a bit later and allow your eyes to get used to the dark for at least 20 mins so that you can see more of the stars of the constellations.

You will quickly get the hang of it and is worth the study. You won't regret it.

Phil

[hobsey]

As a newbie to the hobby, I know exactly where you're coming from.

I have been studying where things are using a free program called Stellarium, which you can download from here. http://stellarium.org/

Its a very simple program to use and you will find yourself looking at it for ages as its in real time.

[Moonshane]

a planisphere might help as you can see the whole sky at once and therefore how the constellations fit together.

keep at it, eventually you'll wonder how you failed before.

[happy-kat]

I am finding Turn Left at Orion book helpful

[ronin]

First question:

Can you recognise The Plough and then Cassiopeia ?

Plough looks like ?? the plough I suppose, or the American term is the Dipper, Dipper as in Ladel.

Cassiopeia looks like a nice big "W" with one side slightly flattish.

Get those 2 first.

From there others can be located.

PM me when you are happy to be able to go out and locate them, have some basic diagrams for constellations, getting from one to another and what is in them, I can email them if wanted. However Plough and Cassiopeia are the start.

For the hell of it stand outside and if clear (think it is raining up where you are) look more or less straight up, should be a cross in the sky thats Cygnus, could strain your neck looking up. Just thrown that in for the fun of it.

[Paul M]

It can be really difficult finding all but the brightest constellations.

I was lucky in having relatively darker skies when I was a boy learning the constellations. Light pollution is a constellation killer.

Try and get out to a rural spot next time the sky is really clear. Check with a planisphere or the monthly guide out of one of the magazines to see what is up that night and take it from there.

During the evenings of late summer there are the 3 bright stars of the "summer triangle" still high up (Vega in Lyra, Deneb in Cygnus and Altair in Aquila). If you can find them it will give you an idea of the "scale" of the night sky and also have you well on your way to another 3 constellations.

It's quite a large triangle with Vega and Deneb near overhead but not that close together and Altair half way down to the horizon in the S or SW.

I still remember discovering the Summer Triangle and it's still a handy signpost in light polluted skies!

Good luck and enjoy

[AstroTux]

My suggestion would be to purchase the Philip's 'Guide to the Night Sky', about £5. Written by our old friend Sir Patrick Moore it gives lots of advise on how to recognise the main constellations and then use these to find others and other objects of interest. This was the first book where I learnt the old maxim of 'Arc to Arcturus' which you will find most amateur astronomers still mouth whilst searching through the sky :grin: . Nice simple stuff but an excellent starter for not much money.

Hope this helps,

Alan

[acey]

You don't need to know the constellations as long as you can read a map. I agree that a planisphere would be the best thing for you to get hold of, and an atlas such as the S&T Pocket Atlas. With binoculars, great areas to look at are Cassiopeia and Perseus. Find the W of Cassiopeia and sweep down into Perseus. See if you can find the Double Cluster. Even if you can't, you'll still see some lovely star fields. As we head towards the end of the year Orion will become increasingly prominent. This is a very easy constellation to spot, and the belt and sword are good places to aim your binoculars.

Another option is to take your binoculars to a dark site. This may actually make the constellations harder to identify as you'll see such a myriad of stars - but sweeping will be more rewarding.

[Ryan1885]

Stellarium is a brilliant (and free) and I've just ordered turn left at Orion

[Lorne]

Check if there is an astro group local to you and pop along to an observing session, its easier to pick things up if someone is pointing things out to you.

You can also get the added bonus of a peek through a scope or two to see the objects a bit more magnified than what you see through your binos.

[Carl Reade]

Hi, The constellations are very big compared to maps. The first stars to appear in the evening are usually constellation stars (the brightest). If you go out as the first stars appear (Im finding about1030pm)you should be able to see the Plough and the W shape of Cassiopia. Once you recognise them you will find them easily, then move on to the nearest constellation to them.

Oh and good call on buying Binos first.

Cheers Carl

[LTB]

If your older your eyes are going to be some of your problem. They just arent gonna see what a youngster can see. If you have significant light pollution you are going to have this affect what you can see in the night sky as well. Where I live sometimes I have a hard time finding Polaris because I have some pretty significant light pollution and a full moon and poorly adapted night vision are all working against me. Some nights the conditions are pretty favorable.

Try going out into a darker zone and observing for a bit and you will probably find that all the stuff that your having trouble with at home suddenly pops out at you and is pretty easy to find.

Addtionally that phone app might be pretty bright........destroying your night vision and making it very hard to pick stuff out in the night sky.

[JamesF]

I'll second the idea of using a planisphere. I think that gives a lot of help when you're starting out in terms of getting an idea of where the constellations are in relation to each other.

I also think the idea of going out very early when only a few stars are visible is worthwhile. For instance, if you go out at twilight now and face south there are only four or five stars that are visible. You might find Arcturus, Vega, Altair and Deneb fairly easily. Looking north Capella is going to be the brightest star you can see. They appear to move throughout the night certainly, but only slowly, so as the sky darkens you should then be able to use them to pick out Bootes, Lyra, Aquila, Cygnus and Auriga. Those should give you a handle on the constellations that surround them and you can build things up from there. Some really are quite faint, especially if you have any light pollution to contend with. Others are just tricky to get a handle on (eg Draco) because they wander over a huge area of sky. But as you get your eye in you'll find it becomes much easier. It also helps to know that if you can find the Plough, a line through the last two stars in the "cup" can be extended to lead you to Polaris, which is at the end of Ursa Minor, and Draco wraps around it. A planisphere should hopefully make these relationships more obvious.

It's not long until Orion is clear in the night sky and I defy anyone not to be able to find Orion. That will lead you in to a number of other winter constellations too.

Stick with it. It will all start to fall into place fairly quickly.

James

[Astro Imp]

All good advice already given. My 2ps (for our American friends 2 cents), have a good look at Stellarium and pick a couple of easy targets, as already mentioned the Plough and Cassiopeia would be good right now. Then go out and find these and look at them naked eye until you can envision the main stars in your mind's eye without looking at any reference material. From there have another look at Stellarium or other reference and pick another that can be reached by extending what you already know. Take your time and over the course of a few nights you will surprise yourself how much you have learnt.

Don't be in a rush and as you spend more time under the night sky your knowledge just creeps up on you and you will become more and more confident of finding your way around.

Have fun and enjoy.

[RK75]

Thank you everyone. I get the feeling I'm trying to run before I can walk.

I've downloaded Stellarium and managed to set my location including altitude - took me an hour or so to convince it I wasn't in France but I got there in the end! I've also obtained a planisphere for the month as well.

Armed with these and having spent a couple of hours looking at them, I've ventured into the wilderness of my back garden where I took about 20 minutes or just staring at the sky to adjust before trying to look for anything. And that's where it all falls apart for me.

I could see the the Plough - that's an obvious one I think - and tried following through to see the North Star which apparently is easy to find, but it could have been one of several stars. After just staring again, I think I found Cygnus, but it could have been the right have side of Pegasus. I went back to the Plough and tried looking for Draco but couldn't make that shape out either. Then I tried looking for Cassiopeia and the "W", but to be honest, I could have made a "W" shape out of any number of stars. Would any of this make sense if I said that I can't follow a road map unless I rotate it to my own viewpoint? But even then with Stellarium I still had difficulties.

On a more positive side, I think I was able to discern the Milky Way - there was a very faint cloud shape at least amongst an otherwise cloudless sky and I have seen it before. At least I think it was the Milky Way. I also got my bins out for a little bit and was please to see a lot more stars than I could before. Not knowing about what they are did not diminish my fascination for the view.

I also spotted a couple of lights travelling quickly in the sky in opposite directions. They seemed too fast for planes and too slow for shooting stars (they were literally a small pint of light moving quickly through the sky). I think they may have been satellites?

I'm still feeling a bit irked at not getting results, so to speak, but I remember my first music lessons - it was a few weeks before I could knock out a recognisable tune.

I'm going to look for the local astronomy clubs as I think I will gain a lot from that and think someone showing me something will be a lot more beneficial.

Thanks again to everyone on here for their input and advice. It's nice to be able to ask questions, put viewpoints and experiences across and be responded to in such a helpful and friendly manner.

[Aenima]

plus one for stellarium.

Nt much else i can add really, stellarium and perseverence

Regards

Aenima

[HIP3802]

Have you got 'Stellarium' on a laptop/notebook/phone? If so take it with you into the garden. The first three buttons on the bottom bar of 'Stellarium' are all related to the constellations. The first will over write constellation lines on the sky image, the second will add the names, and the third will add fantastic art. As this is done in 'real time' you can, by using the first two of the graphics, see the constellations firstly on the laptop and then in the skies.

Hope this helps,

Martin.

[ronin]

Oddly Polaris is not as obvious as it is reported to be, I swear blind it is off to one side a bit.

Draco is difficult. It is faint to start with and in the UK with lights close to damn impossible - the body is hard the head is a little less hard, none of Draco is easy.

Cygnus is a neck strain vertically up. The top of the Cross is easy the lower bit less easy, should stop refering to it as a cross as it is a Swan. Just the swans neck is a bit faint,

Tried to include a small image but post is not having it.

Image appears in my edit but not in the posted reply.

[JamesF]

If you can make out the Milky Way that suggests you live in an area where the sky is at least reasonably dark, so you may well be struggling because there are too many stars to navigate your way around. If you can get out before the sky is really dark you'll find there are far fewer to see and picking out which is which should then be much easier.

Once you have a few "landmarks" you'll be able to find much more because you can relate everything back to them.

James

[JamesF]

Oddly Polaris is not as obvious as it is reported to be, I swear blind it is off to one side a bit.

It isn't on a perfectly straight line from the pointer stars, but it's pretty close and if you follow the line it's the first bright star you come anywhere close to.

It may also help to know that if you hold out your arm in front of you and stretch out your thumb and little finger they will cover pretty much the same distance across the sky as there is between Dubhe, the "top" pointer star in the Plough, and Polaris. This actually works out as a reasonable measure for most people as those with smaller hands and fingers tend to have shorter arms. There are some pictures on this page to illustrate it:

http://www.oneminuteastronomer.com/860/measuring-sky

I've seen a bit of disagreement over the 25 degree measure. Some people put it as 20 degrees. For me it's somewhere between the two as I seem to have quite stumpy fingers , but in any case it should be broadly indicative of the distance you're looking for in this case.

James

[AstroTux]

If you can get out before the sky is really dark you'll find there are far fewer to see and picking out which is which should then be much easier.

This is very good advice, especially at the moment.

If you stand outside just as it's getting dark and look overhead and to the South, probably the first thing you will see is quite a large triangle of bright stars in the sky. This is one of the 'waypoints' we call the "Summer Triangle" and consists of Deneb ( in Cygnus ), Vega ( in Lyra ) and Altair ( in Aquila ). Set your planisphere up for the correct time and date and you will see what I mean, as these three stars are the biggest dots visible on the chart in that part of the sky.

If you can find these stars as dusk falls and then wait a bit for other stars to start appearing you will start to see Cygnus and Aquila take shape and it will give you a feel of the scale of the sky compared with the planisphere,

Hope this helps, and good luck finding those constellations,

Alan

[Superdavo]

I find it best to find one, then look for others nearby. It's easiest in winter, when you can follow Orion's Belt up to Taurus, and use Taurus to easily find Auriga, and Aries etc. The Plough is another good one for in summer, as you can see it any time of year.

David

[stevend]

In the per-Internet days... I started with naked eye and being able to recognise specific constellations. Today of course we have lots of help.. Just repeating: naked eye, start early, ie late evening; at the moment Vega is first out closely followed by Deneb, Altair (=summer triangle) and Arcturus. In the summer the Plough and Cassiopeia are easy to spot. Use Stellarium to help with others.

Also, each time you are outside with clear night skies, even if on a 'social', try to find certain constellations and stars unaided to help with familiarity.

Binoculars are particularly good for looking at the moon and first quarter is soon.

[JennyH]

Hi

Everything everyone else has said is right - it's mainly persistence, but having someone to point out to you (e..g local society observing night) is likely to help too. Once you see them it's really obvious. Polaris is notoriously faint - especially in a remotely dark sky. Once you've got Cassiopeia you'll not lose it again - depending on the angle you're looking at you could describe it as an M or an E as well as a W. If you're not sure, you're probably not looking at it. It occupies quite a large area - not as much as the plough, but comparable and is prominent.

I do feel your pain - I find it very frustrating not to be able to see things that others say are obvious, or easy to find - but every publication seems to interpret 'small' telescope differently. I've looked for loads of things in my small (baby) dobsonian only to realise that they are beyond it's reach unless the sky really is dark. On the upside, practise also helps. I'm now picking out clusters and nebulae that I simply couldn't have got a year ago, just due to experience.

Keep looking, and if all else fails, turn your binoculars on the milky way and just drink in the view :-)

good luck!