Vixen LVW vs Pentax XW vs Delos

[Andrew*]

I've not used a Delos but I have used Pentax XW's (which are reported to be virtually the same as the Delos in terms of comfort and quality) and I've compared the views at some length with Baader GO's and other quality orthos. The XW's get as near as dammit the same optical quality views as the Baader GO's but over a 70 degree field of view and with 20mm of eye relief. They really are that good and, from all I've read, the Delos match the XW's. There is one area that I found the Baader GO superior, slightly, and that was in controlling light scatter around bright objects. For me this meant that the Baader GO's show Sirus B just that little bit easier than the Pentax XW's does. And it is just a little bit.

So, if they wish too, orthoscopic lovers can switch to the Delos or Pentax XW's in the confidence that they will be sacrificing virtually nothing in exchange for that nice wide FoV and comfortable eye relief

That's why I chose them. While I don't seem to be very adept at picking out these very fine differences between eyepieces, The feeling that the eyepiece is NOT the limiting factor in the view quality is satisfying.

[John]

That's why I chose them. While I don't seem to be very adept at picking out these very fine differences between eyepieces, The feeling that the eyepiece is NOT the limiting factor in the view quality is satisfying.

Thats exactly what I look for in an eyepiece too - it kind of gives you confidence when looking for stuff thats on the edge of what the scope / conditions / observer can achieve

[Andrew*]

Thats exactly what I look for in an eyepiece too - it kind of gives you confidence when looking for stuff thats on the edge of what the scope / conditions / observer can achieve

It's that, but in the case of the XWs, it's also the comfort. Lots of eye relief, no blacking out and a wide field of view. That's very pleasurable and for me, counters the lust for wider fields of view. Of course having glasses is also a reason.

Until they invent "headpieces", 180° FOV windows to space that you can put your whole head into and look around, I think I'll be quite happy with my XWs and Delos'.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I sometimes feel the XWs - BGO comparison is close to the P51 Mustang - Me 109 comparison made by a German pilot: the Mustang can do everything my Me 109 can do, but for 2 hours rather than 20 minutes.

John's words on ergonomics are very important. If you struggle physically at the EP, you will lose more detail than the extra glass-air interfaces cost due to fatigue. You see with your brain, more than with your eyes, and the more relaxed you are, the more detail you can tease out of the image. This year I have repeatedly (to be sure I wasn't making things up) spotted some extremely faint objects (a mag 13.2 galaxy), because I could relax at the EP. In that sense, my observing chair contributes as much to my observations as my EPs.

[Mark in Macc]

That's exactly the reason I started using binoviewers. Much more relaxing once you have them set up properly. I'm not sure whether Delos or XWs would fit though, thankfully for my bank balance and marriage.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

The Delos and XWs would fit I think, and the XFs certainly. Neither your bank balance nor your marriage are ever fully safe in astronomy

[denis0007dl]

Pentax XW is great in FLs 3,5mm, 5mm, 7mm and 10mm, then, I would go with Delos 17,3mm and XW30mm!

[25585]

Having today taken delivery of a Vixen 20mm LV (original), I have read the comments here with interest. 

Has anyone tried out the TV Delite 18mm in comparison to Delos, LVW & XW? Delites may not have been made at the time. 

[Louis D]

I'm sure you've read it by now, but here's Bill Paolini's first light review of the 7mm, 11mm, and 18.2mm versions when they were first introduced.

[F15Rules]

I've only owned one Delite, a 5mm which I bought new on offer. I didn't like it. Perhaps I might have felt better about longer focal length Delites, but I felt my x2 barlowed Pentax XL 10.5mm gave a more satisfying view..

It's still one of my favourite EPs and I now have a Pentax XW5 which IMHO is a more satisfying eyepiece to use than the Delite 5mm. Maybe it's the extra 8 degrees FOV of the XW that really appeals, but all I can say is I look forward to using my Pentax (and LVW) eyepieces in a way that I never did with the Delite. Images seem crisper and more contrasty and the Pentax's are just SO comfortable to use for extended periods.

Other users will likely have different opinions of course..

Dave

[25585]

On 2 November 2014 at 09:07, denis0007dl said:

Pentax XW is great in FLs 3,5mm, 5mm, 7mm and 10mm, then, I would go with Delos 17,3mm and XW30mm!

I have read the longer Fl XWs are not so good as their shorter eps. How do the LVW longer Fl eps compare i.e. 30, 40 & the NLV 50mm (TV rival 55mm Plossl)?

Vixen still have the 50 on their site, whereas the other NLVs are shown as discontinued. 

[Mr Spock]

As this is an old thread revived, time to update this:

 

The LVWs are very comfortable to use. A while back I was (almost) tempted to swap the 22mm and 17mm Naglers for LVWs. Every now and then I think about it...

I did that a year ago. Sold both Naglers and now have a 22mm LVW. Very nice eyepiece!

[25585]

2 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

As this is an old thread revived, time to update this:

 

 

I did that a year ago. Sold both Naglers and now have a 22mm LVW. Very nice eyepiece!

Tried out my 20mm LV & have been impressed with its optical quality. Only 50 degs but it's now piqued my interest in the LVWs (and 50 NVL). 

[John]

Pentax XW's are not a "scaled" design, ie: the different focal lengths have different optical layouts and therfore their optical characteristics vary. The 14mm and 20mm seem to have have more field curvature than the 10, 7, 5 and 3.5mm focal lengths although some people still find them fine eyepieces. I think it depends to some extent on the scope type that they are used in.

I thought the 30mm XW (a 2" model) a very nice eyepiece, comfortable and, to my eyes, relatively free from obvious field curvature, at least in the scopes that I tried it in - an F/6.5 ED doublet refractor and an F/4.8 10" newtonian. I've not used the 40mm XW. Since they were discontiuned a couple of years ago the 2" XW's have reached eye watering prices on the used market so have probably dropped off most folks "wanted" lists

Here are the optical layouts of the XW series of eyepieces:

 

[F15Rules]

41 minutes ago, 25585 said:

41 minutes ago, 25585 said:

I did that a year ago. Sold both Naglers and now have a 22mm LVW. Very nice eyepiece

 

I sold my XW20mm after very careful comparisons with my LVW22mm. I especially compared the two eps on M42, as this object show so many different details, and also some open clusters.

The XW20 had severe field curvature  versus the LVW 22, and the LVW had improved contrast and was sharper to the edge of the field, no doubt about it.

I sold my XW14 for the same reason (FC was worse than the XW20, if anything), and I replaced it with a Baader Morpheus 14mm (a cracking eyepiece).

I've had a few eyepiece changes since then, but have now settled on LVW 22 and 13mm and XW 5mm/10.5mm. 

I 'd love an XW 30mm but as John says, their prices are silly; I have an ES28mm 68 Deg though and am very happy with it.

Dave

 

 

[Louis D]

3 hours ago, F15Rules said:

I sold my XW14 for the same reason (FC was worse than the XW20, if anything), and I replaced it with a Baader Morpheus 14mm (a cracking eyepiece).

I had hoped the 14mm Morpheus would be a worthy replacement for my venerable 14mm Pentax XL, but it has slight astigmatism at the edge at best focus whereas the Pentax has none.  I'd say the Morpheus has a flatter field, but it is not sharp to the edge.  I do like the 76 degree field.

I'm considering trying the 14mm Delos which is reported to be both flat of field and astigmatism free at the edge.  I'm just not crazy about its in-focus requirements.  However, I think I'll probably get the 12mm ES-92 first to complement my 17mm ES-92 and to replace my 12mm Nagler T4.  I still haven't sold my 17mm Nagler T4, but its days are numbered.  It's now in my eyepiece case of miscellaneous eyepieces that are rarely used.

[Mr Spock]

Here's a view of the LVW. The symmetrical design probably shows why the eyepiece behaves more like a wide field, aberration free Plössl than conventional wide field eyepieces.

The only disappointment is the 30mm. The design is five element and more like an Erfle. Very poor and should be avoided. Such a shame.

[F15Rules]

5 hours ago, Louis D said:

9 hours ago, F15Rules said:

 

I had hoped the 14mm Morpheus would be a worthy replacement for my venerable 14mm Pentax XL, but it has slight astigmatism at the edge at best focus whereas the Pentax has none.  I'd say the Morpheus has a flatter field, but it is not sharp to the edge.  I do like the 76 degree field

The Morpheus was sharp in my Vixen ED103s out to at least 72-73degrees, compared to the 65 degrees of the XL, the 72 of the Delos (which I should say I've never used), the 70 of the XW 14 and the 62 Delite. 

So in visible sharp field terms the Morpheus matches or beats all the others, and I also found its' contrast and flatness of field to match or slightly beat the XW14, with very little FC at all.  Not bad for an eyepiece that in the UK undercuts significantly on price all the others mentioned (apart from the XLs of course which are only available used).

I can see that absolute FOC sharpness might matter more for non driven Dobs, (I use eq mounts), but even so you're getting 70 degrees plus of sharp field from the Morpheus.

I just wish they'd hurry up and launch the  long delayed 17.3mm!

Sorry to go off the original topic a little??.

Dave

[Paul73]

4 hours ago, Louis D said:

.

I'm considering trying the 14mm Delos which is reported to be both flat of field and astigmatism free at the edge.  I'm just not crazy about its in-focus requirements.

Interesting point re infocus. The Delos 14mm and 17.3 need more infocus than the rest of the range. You can get an adaptor which makes them parfocal across the range. A pain but worth it in my large print book.

Paul

[John]

41 minutes ago, Paul73 said:

Interesting point re infocus. The Delos 14mm and 17.3 need more infocus than the rest of the range....

They do. I use the 17.3mm Delos and it's focal point is just a touch inwards from the XW's and about 10mm inwards from the more common Tele Vue point used by eyepieces in their focal group "B" eg: the 24mm Panoptic and many others. I find moving from the 17.3 Delos to the 10mm XW (my next step in this set) not much trouble - just a small amount of re-focussing but moving from the 24mm Pan to the 17.3 Delos a bit more taxing.

I'm going to use a par-focal ring on the 24 Pan to even things up a bit.

[GavStar]

As the OP, it's fun to read this 4 year old thread again. I did end up purchasing the 5, 8 and 13mm lvw and I've still got them. I think the 22mm is my favourite of the bunch - lovely eyepiece. However they rarely get used now as my eyepiece preferences are binoviewers for solar and planets and ultra wide field for DSOs.

As the lvws are now discontinued, I think I'll hang on to them though since they could be useful for my daughters as they are so comfy to use.

I've kept my most of my Delos and Pentax xw as well. Interestingly these have been getting some use recently at the shorter end for globulars.

But with limited planetary action at the moment, my most used eyepieces are the ES 92 12mm and 17mm and the Ethos 21mm. I did have a 14mm Delos but sold it - I think the ES 12mm and 17mm are better for me but a bit on the heavy side.

 

 

[25585]

2 hours ago, GavStar said:

As the OP, it's fun to read this 4 year old thread again. I did end up purchasing the 5, 8 and 13mm lvw and I've still got them. I think the 22mm is my favourite of the bunch - lovely eyepiece. However they rarely get used now as my eyepiece preferences are binoviewers for solar and planets and ultra wide field for DSOs.

As the lvws are now discontinued, I think I'll hang on to them though since they could be useful for my daughters as they are so comfy to use.

I've kept my most of my Delos and Pentax xw as well. Interestingly these have been getting some use recently at the shorter end for globulars.

But with limited planetary action at the moment, my most used eyepieces are the ES 92 12mm and 17mm and the Ethos 21mm. I did have a 14mm Delos but sold it - I think the ES 12mm and 17mm are better for me but a bit on the heavy side.

 

 

It is the NLVs (apart from 50) which have been discontinued, not the LVWs. There is a 30mm NLVW that has the same body design as NLVs which can still be bought. 

I would be interested in a comparison between a 2x Barlowed 42 LVW and the 22. Former would give some extra eye relief. 

[GavStar]

27 minutes ago, 25585 said:

It is the NLVs (apart from 50) which have been discontinued, not the LVWs. There is a 30mm NLVW that has the same body design as NLVs which can still be bought. 

I would be interested in a comparison between a 2x Barlowed 42 LVW and the 22. Former would give some extra eye relief. 

This announcement from Firstlightoptics indicates that the lvws have been discontinued 

 

[Alan White]

I as an owner of the 22mm LVW fully agree it’s a peach of an eyepiece.

It has been threatened by a ES 24 / 68 but it’s won out after comparison, it’s just a tad more comfortable and as my first wider field has mythical status in my EP collection.

They are discontinued, the ones about must be remaining stocks, they have also gained a premium price on new old stock.

I will be on the look out for some others, missed the 13mm sold by F15rules recently!

[Mr Spock]

Recently, at Lucksall, I was using my 22mm LVW with my Celestron 80ED. So, x27 and 2.5°. Looking at the double cluster, some of the faint stars were incredibly pin sharp - I've not seen that in any other scope/eyepiece combination. The sharpness was right across the FOV too.

It renewed my interest in clusters. Other, more obscure objects, such as NGC1502 in Cam, took on a new life.

I need a big apo to go with it