80ED v ZS71 - The shootout begins

[Sp@ce_d]

Hi,

The focusers are different, the one on the equinox feels more robust and the action of the knobs are smoother, I spent  quite a bit of time handling one before I decided that another £200.00 would buy a very good triplet. the  rotatable focuser is a bonus if it does not shift focus after being rotated. The scope itself feels very nice. I am still waiting for someone to tell me how they use  an F6.3 reducer on an ED 80 or Equinox, I suspect that it probably will work better on an F7.5 ED 80 rather than an F6.25 Equinox, but getting to work with a backfocus distance of 110mm is another matter. A Televue 0.8 FF/FR should have no problem though with a standard 55 mm back focus.

A.G

This is the reducer for the Evostar DSpro80ED http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reducersflatteners/skywatcher-focal-reducers.html it screws onto the end of the focus tube. It's not designed to work with the Equinox as I understand it.

As far as I'm aware SW don't do a reducer for the Equinox. The popular choice is the Televue TRF2008 but some are using SCT reducers to good effect.

Which triplet did you decide on for £200 more?

[Sp@ce_d]

I have only ever imaged with my 450D and Equinox combine with my reducer. So I have a very wide FOV that is a combo of my FL (380mm with the reducer) and the large chip of the DSLR.  I have three images posted on the forum:

M42 and M31

&

M8 and M20

One important thing to note is that these were taken unguided at 120sec subs. So there's some slight eggy stars as there were taken over several nights and the polar alignment wasnt always the same or the best. Also these images are cropped but only cropped to take off as little as possible as field rotation came in to play as imaging session could be a month or two apart. I can post the TIFFs when I get home from work if you want a closer, uncropped look. Just let me know. I do have some 5min guided subs of M31 that I havent processed yet and could let you have a look at those as well if you wish.

I can say from experience that I have never had any issue with bloating stars or halos or anything of the such. The only thing that effects my images are gradients and noise from the dslr.

BUT

I just got a CCD that I will hopefully have working by next weekend. Its have frosting problems so got to get that taken care of and got to go to a wedding this weekend so my weekend is gone.

I bought mine second hand and the previous own used it for imaging with a dslr as well. When I first got it the focuser would slip if I got too close to the zenith with just the 450D on the back. But I finally found the hidden screw to tighten it down and I havent had a problem since. I've only had my new CCD + filter wheel on there once and wasn't point too high but even with that on it didn't slip. And the weight has easily doubled if not tripled. Though I do want to not that I think I might have tightened it a bit too tight as the small focuser on the dual speed focuser doesn't move the tube now only the large focuser wheel. But I'm a bit paranoid with the extra weight and only one screw holding all that weight. I can still achieve pretty decent focus though.

The reducer I have is, unfortunately, a unbranded FF/R. So I don't know who made it. The person I bought it from said its a chinese brand. But it was much cheaper than the TV 2008 I was going to have to buy new and cheap was good when I first started. Fortunately though I have had no issues with it and can't tell if it is effecting my images for the worse or not. Maybe a more experienced person could but not I.

Thankyou for this info... those images are rather good, I'm impressed with them being unguided

I'm not sure comparing the OSC of the DSLR with my mono CCD shots is a fair check so maybe wait until you've had time to get your CCD going. I did a quick comparison of some of my older DSLR images done with my 80ED and they have a similar look to the stars.

[nmoushon]

Here is 90min of 5min guided with the Equinox, FF/R, and 450D. The top right corner shows some eggy stars but the other corners aren't as bad. Which means somewhere along the train something isnt lined up perfect. 

[lensman57]

This is the reducer for the Evostar DSpro80ED http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reducersflatteners/skywatcher-focal-reducers.html it screws onto the end of the focus tube. It's not designed to work with the Equinox as I understand it.

As far as I'm aware SW don't do a reducer for the Equinox. The popular choice is the Televue TRF2008 but some are using SCT reducers to good effect.

Which triplet did you decide on for £200 more?

Hi,

I have the SW 0.85 reducer for both my ED80 and 100 ED, they are fine but the reduction is not much. I also have a Meade F6.3 reducer that is supposed to work with the ED80 but I have not as yet managed to get it working with them. It may also work with my MAK 127. I have to save up for a decent mono ccd first before attempting to buy the triplet, it is an Ascension  80 APO triplet from Opticstar but I believe that it is marketed under other brands too, Meade included. I could have it for under £730.00 as the shop is down the road from me and the guys who run it are quite decent. It is a very well made scope and @ f6 is reasonably fast. It uses the Hoya glass rather OHARA. Their 127 ( under a different brand ) got very good review in last months Sky and Night, but the CCD first I guess.

Regards,

A.G

[Sp@ce_d]

Here is 90min of 5min guided with the Equinox, FF/R, and 450D. The top right corner shows some eggy stars but the other corners aren't as bad. Which means somewhere along the train something isnt lined up perfect. 

I had something similar when I first got my 80ED. I checked collimation with a Hotec laser & squared up the focuser. It still wasn't quite in.. it turned out to be the lens cell had been cross threaded & had paint flakes in the thread. I removed it, cleaned the threads & screwed it back in carefully, worked a treat.

Have you tried PixInsight? The DBE tool works wonders on gradients..

[lensman57]

Here is 90min of 5min guided with the Equinox, FF/R, and 450D. The top right corner shows some eggy stars but the other corners aren't as bad. Which means somewhere along the train something isnt lined up perfect. 

Hi,

It is a nice capture and looks like a lot of data in there some where, but holy double gradient, you must have as bad an LP as I do .

Regards,

A.G

[Ewan]

Hi,

The focusers are different, the one on the equinox feels more robust and the action of the knobs are smoother, I spent  quite a bit of time handling one before I decided that another £200.00 would buy a very good triplet. the  rotatable focuser is a bonus if it does not shift focus after being rotated. The scope itself feels very nice. I am still waiting for someone to tell me how they use  an F6.3 reducer on an ED 80 or Equinox, I suspect that it probably will work better on an F7.5 ED 80 rather than an F6.25 Equinox, but getting to work with a backfocus distance of 110mm is another matter. A Televue 0.8 FF/FR should have no problem though with a standard 55 mm back focus.

A.G

I can't place where i saw how people were using the SCT 6.3FR & it was only last week i saw it while discussing things with Space_d  but they are meant to work, how well i just don't know, i'm not sure the FR spacin g is 110mm 90% of the info i have read sais it should be 105mm, i use an SCT 2" adapter & it puts it at that distance.

Hi Ewan..  He he.. decisions decisions.. it's a nightmare when you can't get away with sneaking a Tak in under yer coat!

If Olly had his way (and who can blame him) we'd have nothing to procrastinate about on SGL and all wear grey suits.. (hehe only kiddin' Olly ) I'm sure he gets Taks equivalent of a green shield stamp every time he mentions the Tak..

It does almost seem that if you have £500 to spend get a SWEvostarDSpro80ED or if you have £3500 get the FSQ85ED.. not much else gets mentioned in-between.

If the Equinox IS a faster Evostar DSpro then it's a no brainer, but then why aren't people shouting about them the way they do the Evostar DSpro?

Those images of nmoushon are pretty good... & unguided!

I'd probably be prepared to take the gamble & get an Equinox hoping it turned out to be a faster 80ED & pleasantly surprised if it were even better optically. At the moment now that the Esprit is some 2 weeks away, I'm holding that off as I'd want to add the TV TRF2008 reducer to the shopping list so pushing the cost up. Depending on the final price of the Esprit it may not be that bigger a jump.

Of course, once up there then there are the Borgs to consider and I am starting to see some real benefits in having a modular system that's so adaptable and can be build on!

Hi Sp@ce_d,

Yep choices eh  , just as i think ive decided up pops another.

I think it's the overall value of what you get with the DS Pro that 'persuades' a lot of people to buy it, you can use it straight out of the box as it were.

As i said i don't think i'll stretch to the Esprit, i'd love to, but that Atik is calling

[Sp@ce_d]

A real quick run over with a default pass of DBE.. it's starting to clean up..

EDIT: Of course it needs to be done in a linear state..

[Sp@ce_d]

Back on track for a bit..

A couple of Ha subs both taken tonight at the same time while we've been chatting... 2 days off full moon. All I've done is an auto stretch in PI.

80ED

ZS71

These scopes are both great for this stuff.. can't wait to get a triple shooter up & running.. between these 2 scopes I've got 8 hours of data already tonight

[Ewan]

Great shots there Sp@ce_d, pooring down here still............but has given me time to polish up my frac knowledge i guess.

I can't wait to get imaging with an Atik & start capturing shots like these.

[Sp@ce_d]

Great shots there Sp@ce_d, pooring down here still............but has given me time to polish up my frac knowledge i guess.

I can't wait to get imaging with an Atik & start capturing shots like these.

Ha after posting that I stuck my head outside.. it's clouding over so I've just closed up, beware it's addictive you'll soon want 3!!  .. night

[nmoushon]

Hi,

It is a nice capture and looks like a lot of data in there some where, but holy double gradient, you must have as bad an LP as I do .

Regards,

A.G

It was particularly bad that night as the local high school had its football game that night and the field is close enough that I can see the tall field lights. So I guess till the season is over Friday nights are now out for imaging.

Sp@ce_d - If you are saying your DSLR image have the same stars then I guess I will have to wait till I get my CCD up and running. Hopefully I can take at least a couple images by middle of next week with the weather is kind...and I can dodge the full moon....

[Sp@ce_d]

Still haven't got any decent RGB data to post up but here's the stacks from Tuesdays NB session under an almost full Moon.

4hrs each of Ha no calibration files, processed in PI.

ED80

ZS71

For NB either of these scopes do a decent job, just a choice of FOV really I think.

[Sp@ce_d]

Some usable gaps in the clouds tonight,  not long enough to get consistent 15min plus subs, so I'm grabbing some 300s RGB with the ZS71 in-between clouds.

Single 5Min subs off the ZS71 unprocessed. First the un stretched, followed by an auto stretch in PI.

R  Un-Stretched                                                                                                                    R Auto-Stretched

       

G  Un-Stretched                                                                                                                    G Auto-Stretched

      

         

B  Un-Stretched                                                                                                                    B Auto-Stretched

       

Conditions are not brilliant but the Blue's obviously showing bloat. It looks like it might be off slightly with the focus but I did focus the Blue with a Bahtinov & relied on the Baaders being parafocal for the R&G. If I get enough usable subs tonight I'll process & post. I do intend to get the OIII & SII for this target when I can take longer subs as my preference is for NB. I'm definitely thinking I'm needing better corrected optics for decent stars with the triple shooter setup though.

[Ewan]

Very nice Space_d & it's nice to see someone getting some imaging done, anymore of this behaviour & i am posting you my clouds

Won't even get first light with my 80mm as the house is still upside down while im completing my lads room, builder in the day then at night..........aint i lucky lol

That's the first time i have seen anyone post the seperate channels from a ccd, it shows what filters collects what data, to me anyway.

Keep on going Space_d i think a finished shot will be great either way.

[lensman57]

Hi,

I think that all doublets have a weak spot with blue, WO 71 is no exception, SW 80 ED appears to be better corrected but is about a whole F stop slower than WO 71. My 100 ED DS PRO @ F9 is a lot cleaner for imaging than my ED 80 but is slow. For the price both WO 71 and ED 80 are fine scopes.

A.G

[Sp@ce_d]

Hi,

I think that all doublets have a weak spot with blue, WO 71 is no exception, SW 80 ED appears to be better corrected but is about a whole F stop slower than WO 71. My 100 ED DS PRO @ F9 is a lot cleaner for imaging than my ED 80 but is slow. For the price both WO 71 and ED 80 are fine scopes.

A.G

Yes the SW80ED is definitely better corrected than the ZS71. However, a fair bit can be delt with in processing so I'm happy with it for what it is and I'm more likely to use it for NB imaging anyway. Something else I've started to notice doing these tests is the matching of the Atik 314L+ to these 2 scopes. The SW80ED/314L+ combination definitely looks "sweeter" to my eye. This is probably the most common start up combination for imagers too so I think I'd still be happy recommending it to anyone starting out on that type of budget.

[lensman57]

Yes the SW80ED is definitely better corrected than the ZS71. However, a fair bit can be delt with in processing so I'm happy with it for what it is and I'm more likely to use it for NB imaging anyway. Something else I've started to notice doing these tests is the matching of the Atik 314L+ to these 2 scopes. The SW80ED/314L+ combination definitely looks "sweeter" to my eye. This is probably the most common start up combination for imagers too so I think I'd still be happy recommending it to anyone starting out on that type of budget.

Hi,

I was going to mention the sensor's pixel size but I thought I'd better wait till I do a little test with my Atik 428EX OSC,   I have a feeling that the smaller pixel size could be a better match with the ZS71.

A.G

[Macavity]

A Video Astronomer asks...

I was going to mention the sensor's pixel size but I thought I'd better wait till I do a little test with my Atik 428EX OSC,   I have a feeling that the smaller pixel size could be a better match with the ZS71.

A.G

Thanks for the interesting thread, guys! I am about to invest in a ZS71 for my "small chip" video imaging.

I imagine that a meagre 8mm diagonal and jumbo (8.5 micron) pixels will obviate any worries about

"blue bloat" and DSLR edge effects? Maybe at f/6, I can even use my Baader Hyperions! 

Serious question though: I suppose out-of-focus blue light is "absorbed" by larger pixels?