Did we start the frenzy?

[alan potts]

In the last last year we have seen the finish of two ranges of fine eyepieces. The BGO Orthoscopics and the Televue Radians ( well most of them ) Now they don't come up every day but the Radians price seems to have stayed about the same even after they stopped making most of them, about 100 pounds, give or take. However the BGO was a didferent story, are there any members that think we caused the feeding frenzy?

Alan

[Grotemobile]

Everybody, does seem to recommend the

BGOs.They do perform, very well for the

price.Once people no, they cannot buy

something any more.

Steve

[Qualia]

Ay, to what degree I have no idea, but I have the suspicion that SGL and Cloudy Nights can help make or break a given range of eyepieces or some other astro related gear. The BGO's disappeared in what I understand was a 'metaphysical-act' or 'act-of-god' (tsunami in Japan) but their popularity and price hike on the secondhand market remains due to favourable reviews at these two forums. On the other hand, it could well be possible that the not entirely positive reviews about certain features of the Radian range (more noticeable at CN) was a catalyst for their gradual demise. If this is so, it does place a significant burden on the more experienced posters here, namely, the responsibility to offer the best and objectively possible insight and reviews of the products used.

[alan potts]

I have to say the only bad things I have read about Radian were the colour cast and the lift up eye-cup, neither of which bother me. You could also add the price, which people will always moan about. I also agree the two sites can make or break a product which for me is a good thing.

Alan.

[Mark in Macc]

Did the ES frenzy start on SGL? I certainly wouldn't have bought one without reading on here. Really glad I bought the 30mm 82 deg for my SCT. Waiting for the 20mm 100 deg to arrive as I type.

[rwilkey]

I have certainly got into ES since reading the reviews on here, they are good quality ep's in my opinion, and at a reasonable price. Telescope House were doing great discoumts at the IAS yesterday (as were a number of venders), so I got the 80 degree series 18mm for £136 instead of £175, dead chuffed with this purchase.

[part timer]

In short, yes!

The great reviews of both the BGO's and the KK Volcano top ortho's have created the current silly prices being asked. It's our own fault!

Truth is the BGO's were always really well made and great performance for a decent price.

What they are not, is eyepieces you should pay the current second hand prices for, unless you are a collector rather than an obsever and you really MUST have that last focal length!

Once you get to the silly prices people are paying now you may as well get a wider field and decent eyerelief with it.

When the volcano tops and BGO's were still easily available the majority of people found the ortho design was just too uncomfortable for general use and that the optical quality of wide fields with good eyerelief was at least 98-99% as good as the best ortho's.

Bgo's were often sold on.

As a budget or lower mid range eyepiece the ortho was a solid and dependable bet. That, however was all it was and it really is time to move on as there are just as great or better eyepieces out there now which are often cheaper than they ever were in the past!

[E621Keith]

I have to say the only bad things I have read about Radian were the colour cast and the lift up eye-cup, neither of which bother me. You could also add the price, which people will always moan about. I also agree the two sites can make or break a product which for me is a good thing.

Alan.

I think the demised of Radian started when some guy reviewed the Pentax XF, found the Pentax performed better and cost much less.

Radian also faces serious competition from JOC's 82deg such as ES82 and Meade S5K UWA. BGO and other orthos were always a niche product, even in the astro market. They were discontinued without an alternative, hence the price hike.

[alan potts]

Good point Keith, I guess the Delos were the next in the line.

[John]

Having now got a good Radian (after a false start !) I'm rather impressed with it. It's a 4mm and sits nicely between my Pentax 5 and 3.3mm XW's

I think the sudden inflation in BGO pricing was perhaps inevitable once news of their demise got out. No excuse for it to continue though as the Astro Hutech orthos are the same

One eyepiece that this forum did make a success is the BST Explorer (or whatever they are called now). Robin's positive report on his website plus the feedback from owners on here have probably bought Alan at Skies the Limit a nice holiday on the proceeds - and deservedly so !

[Astro_Baby]

I doubt it to be honest - Its always tempting to think every astronomer is online, and more specifically reading the whatever board your on at the time. I meet a great many astro folk who NEVER come online at all to chat. My sister is one but where I observe there are often plenty of other astro folk up there and not one of them ever comes on here (of CN, or Astro Forum, or UKAP etc etc), ditto when I have attended astro clubs I come across a lot of folk who just dont go on boards.

The most these pople go to is ABS / Astromart etc - the come online to buy not to chat, not to advise and most often they cite online being a waste of time for them. My sister always chides me for it. She never comes online, buys most of her stuff new and only occasionally goes onto ABS - if she sees something she wants I buy it for her - she is very retiring like that. I get nagged by her and she most often says " if you wasted less time online you might actually learn stuff " and to be honest I would be hard put argue the case for online. Its why I now limit myself a bit.

The problem with Hutechs is they aren't Baader - some people want a set of the same and are happy to pay a premium to get it. I find it a bit distasteful myself that people are slagging off sellers for 'profiteering' - it sounds like sour grapes to me. When I see stuff thats overpriced secondhand (or even new come to that) I just dont buy it - simple really.

Its a luxury item remember - its not food or drugs for starving chi

[Naemeth]

In a way, some amateurs will be influenced by forums such as SGL and CN etc (as I was). But as Astro_Baby points out, not everyone goes online to discuss or look at reviews for eyepieces.

[foundaplanet]

I don't doubt that the inflated prices came about due to forum chatter though I reckon it would only have been those same people doing the buying.

[russ.will]

I find it a bit distasteful myself that people are slagging off sellers for 'profiteering' - it sounds like sour grapes to me. When I see stuff thats overpriced secondhand (or even new come to that) I just dont buy it - simple really.

My attitude, exactly.

I tried the BGOs to see what all the fuss was about. I found the reports to be true, enjoyed their positive qualities and and sold on them because of their limitations, for a minimal loss a few weeks later. The speed at which they were snapped up, suggests that it would have only been a matter of waiting, had I wanted to make a small profit, especially as two of them were picked up brand new at a tenner under RRP. I didn't, but don't blame those who see an opportunity.

I won't pay over the odds, but like you say, this is a hobby, so value is in the eye of the purchaser. Prices regularly inflatefor short periods to it ire of some, but if the price remains high, then it becomes the accepted norm. I imagine that a fair few of those bemoaning some of the prices asked (and realised) would suddenly find the extra skeckles for a mint 12.5mm if it cropped up, even though they cost no more than the others, simply because they're harder to find.

By the way, I often see it mentioned that part of the lure is having 'green' in the EP case. I seldom see anybody mention that the green paint is rather likely to fall off, thus leaving you with a Hutech look-a-like. That is shonky finish quality, but maybe people are prone to overlooking this because of their 'cult' status?

Russell

[John]

Having been able to compare a box of Astro Hutechs and Baader GO's for a while now I'm sure that the former are all optically the same as the Baader GO's sharing the same bodies in all the focal lengths except the 6mm and 18mm. The fit and finish of the Astro Hutech's is to the same standard as Baader GO's except the Hutech uses screen printing rather than etching and colouring.

I'm going to keep a couple of Baader GO's in my eyepiece case for when I'm in the mood and the subject demands absolutely minimal light scatter as they do this very well - slightly better even than the Pantax XW's.

[Astro_Baby]

Russ......i found the same, the green line around the barrels tends to flake off even when carefully handled, mine have had almost no use at all yet some of the green paint has dropped away. Modt unlike my UO VTs which have had far more use but still look like they just came out the box.

Ps no one moans about the ZAOs going mental on price or the monocentrics or even the TMB Paragons.

[John]

That flaky paint is slightly annoying.

The upside is that they out perform anything other than a very select few which cost many times as much.

I can live with a few fragments of missing paint I reckon - it didn't bother me too much when I was viewing Sirius B with the 6mm BGO

I was rather miffed when the TMB Supermono prices went stratospheric - mostly because I'd just sold one for £100 only to see it re-sold for more than double. C'est la vie though

[russ.will]

Russ......i found the same, the green line around the barrels tends to flake off even when carefully handled, mine have had almost no use at all yet some of the green paint has dropped away. Modt unlike my UO VTs which have had far more use but still look like they just came out the box.

Ps no one moans about the ZAOs going mental on price or the monocentrics or even the TMB Paragons.

Exactly the point I was making regarding the 12.5mm BGO, except I couldn't remember what price Monocentrics went for in the first place to illustrate the second hand prices asked.

Mind you, after a bit more Googling and finding their current new prices, I expect second hand residuals are pretty firm!

Russell

[John]

Thats quite a price hike - the originals cost £200 new and used to be around £100 - £120 used. They are a specialist eyepiece though with low production volumes which may explain the price of the new ones I guess.

While their performance is around as good as it gets the FoV and tiny eye lenses make using them quite a challenge !

[John]

I reckon one reason for the absence of "clamour" about Supermono and ZAO prices is that their user base on this forum is probably rather small.

Conversely I expect there are a lot of BGO owners and prospective owners amongst our membership.

[Dunkster]

Yeah see I'm sure this reeks of my inexperience (I use goto too shock horror!), but I can't see how on earth I'd get a view of anything through that little peep hole

[E621Keith]

I reckon one reason for the absence of "clamour" about Supermono and ZAO prices is that their user base on this forum is probably rather small.

...

and probably because people who buy exotics like the TMB mono and ZAO doesn't need to look at their price tag. The ZAO were extremely expensive when they were new. They were made in very limited quantity and sold in a laser engrave walnut box. Everything about them sounds like they were made for rich collectors rather than normal users.

[alan potts]

By the sounds of that Keith it is the sort of thing that looks as if it would be showing up on the Antiques Road Show in a few years rather than on A,B&S.

I do not think I would not be able to get on with the 30 degree FOV, I had a go with the 9mm BGO last night, while I found it very sharp I also found it very limiting in respect of FOV, any I am not yet sure I can put up with that.

I didn't get very long with it before a squadron of flying blood suckers took a fancy to me. One of the main problems I have now in making any accurate assessment of an eyepiece is it very hot (33C) days and even last night was 28C, the air is not that stable. It is strange how three weeks can make so much difference. I am going to make some observations using my new toys and do some comparisons but I am going to have to choose my words with some care due to the heat.

Alan.

Alan

[Astro_Baby]

My point was that almost enything that has a following and has some charm goes wld one production stops. Sometimes it takes a while ( I sold a BSA Thunderbolt for £280 once, they were long out of peoduction but hadnt acquired mystique) but its often the case that anything, even common place items, once theres a collector market gets expensive.

Unitron....not that uncommon at one time is pricey now

CZJ eyepieces....must have been very common at one time

E Type Jaguars

WW2 Gas Masks..must have been made in their millions

GPO telephones in bakelite

Airfix kits must have been churned out in vast numbers

Its sometimes not easy to see what will be a classic....who would vere have thought leaky old UK motorbikes would be valuable in the 1970s, who would have imagined a Heinkel Bubble Car would have been valuable in 1960 ? My Dad used to have a scrapyard full of them at one time.

I sont doubt the BGOs meet the requirements for collectability, good quality, limited production runs, not massivley popular in their day, have a certain mystique.

I would not be surprised to seee the Circle T ones go the same way given a bit of time.

[E621Keith]

My point was that almost enything that has a following and has some charm goes wld one production stops. Sometimes it takes a while ( I sold a BSA Thunderbolt for £280 once, they were long out of peoduction but hadnt acquired mystique) but its often the case that anything, even common place items, once theres a collector market gets expensive.

Unitron....not that uncommon at one time is pricey now

CZJ eyepieces....must have been very common at one time

E Type Jaguars

WW2 Gas Masks..must have been made in their millions

GPO telephones in bakelite

Airfix kits must have been churned out in vast numbers

Its sometimes not easy to see what will be a classic....who would vere have thought leaky old UK motorbikes would be valuable in the 1970s, who would have imagined a Heinkel Bubble Car would have been valuable in 1960 ? My Dad used to have a scrapyard full of them at one time.

I sont doubt the BGOs meet the requirements for collectability, good quality, limited production runs, not massivley popular in their day, have a certain mystique.

I would not be surprised to seee the Circle T ones go the same way given a bit of time.

or Sinclair C5. Apparently some people would pay more than £500 for one on fleabay. But then people will buy anything on fleabay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sinclair-C5-excellent-condition-with-all-the-extras-and-improvements-/380626333811?pt=UK_Collectables_OtherTransportation_RL&hash=item589f18f073