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So, travelling home from work I finally got an email from Robert Bauval, he is the bloke actually that made the claim in the program regarding the pleiades. Bearing in mind that I sent him the image below (which I also sent to "Dr" Boulter), I think his response is brilliant.

Him: "I do not see the pleiades at all in this image"

Me: "They are there, this image for some reason shows them above Betelguese."

Him: "You mean those blue dots?? That not the pleiades."

Like I said, brilliant. When all else fails DENY.

Sorry am I missing something, some irony because I am not quite grasping what your on about, maybe I am having a senior moment!
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Come on! Everybody knows that the earth was colonized accidentally by survivors of the Golgafrinchan B-ark. We are all descended from telephone sanitizers and accounts executives.

Somebody might have decided that it looked better like that artistically (I have seen quite a few impossible moon-sets in movies). Or they might just have been incompetent. Napoleon is credited with t

Maybe if we ask these people who claim to be from Pleiades if they know their own location: If they do not know, then Maybe we could ask that traveller in a blue box.

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Sorry am I missing something, some irony because I am not quite grasping what your on about, maybe I am having a senior moment!

Sorry, I should have made myself more clear. In the film/documentary/program whatever you want to call it, this same man claimed that the "blue dots" as he called them in his email, were the pleiades. I merely sent him a screen grab from that moment in the documentary and asked him how they could be the pleiades. He suddenly appears to have decided that they're not.

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I would like to make some further comment here.

1: The rude cow you got an email from is best ignored, a PhD does not give you a Doctorate and thus if she does not possess a Doctorate she is breaking the law in certainly Europe, The USA and Canada, likely far more, as this is a "protected" Job Title, such as Policeman or similar is.

2: She clearly is stupid.

3: Graham Hancock has never claimed aliens or Atlantians built the Pyramids. He has implied, quite coherently, that there is some circumstantial evidence to imply that human civilisation may be a lot older than is generally stated and that perhaps members of this society survived a natural disaster and spread out around the world to explain the apparent dilemma that many similar civilisations occurred almost concurrently.

I know Graham, I do not agree with all he says, but I would point out that some of the points he makes about human history are valid and should be better investigated rather than just shot down in flames as pseudo science.

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Oooh, sounds like somebody was offended: How dare you question my authority! I have a PhD!

Whereas in reality, anybody claiming to be a scientist should encourage questioning of authority. Authority does not count, arguments may.

In science, it's the evidence that counts. Title, opinion, and reputation mean very little if it isn't back up by hard evidence. If your theory stands up to scrutiny it can make you famous, as can disproving an established theory and have evidence to back it up.

But, she's probably an Arts PhD, in which case they just make stuff up and quotes each other. At least that was the impression I got when I read a humanities journals out of shear boredom.

...

1: The rude cow you got an email from is best ignored, a PhD does not give you a Doctorate and thus if she does not possess a Doctorate she is breaking the law in certainly Europe, The USA and Canada, likely far more, as this is a "protected" Job Title, such as Policeman or similar is.

...

I thought PhD (Doctor of Philosophy) is the most common type of Doctorate level award. Can you please explain what you mean by PhD does not equal doctorate?

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In science, it's the evidence that counts. Title, opinion, and reputation mean very little if it isn't back up by hard evidence. If your theory stands up to scrutiny it can make you famous, as can disproving an established theory and have evidence to back it up.

But, she's probably an Arts PhD, in which case they just make stuff up and quotes each other. At least that was the impression I got when I read a humanities journals out of shear boredom.

I thought PhD (Doctor of Philosophy) is the most common type of Doctorate level award. Can you please explain what you mean by PhD does not equal doctorate?

It does not mean you can use the title Doctor though, I have a PhD, but that does not allow or entitle me to use the prefix Doctor, there is specific criteria you need to meet to be allowed to use that, and the minimum outside of the medical world are Research Level degrees above the normal degrees, so at least a Master's plus another 3 years of University research credits (at least a further 120 points above Masters), normally though it will only be tenured Professors who hold the title, though not always.

Edited by J_M_Franklin
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It does not mean you can use the title Doctor though, I have a PhD, but that does not allow or entitle me to use the prefix Doctor, there is specific criteria you need to meet to be allowed to use that, and the minimum outside of the medical world are Research Level degrees above the normal degrees, so at least a Master's plus another 3 years of University research credits (at least a further 120 points above Masters), normally though it will only be tenured Professors who hold the title, though not always.

I thought a PhD allows you to use the prefix Dr., at least all the post doc here do.

A professor use the prefix Prof.

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If you do three or four years (depending on the country) of research after your MSc you can offer your PhD thesis to a committee. Once you have passed your PhD it is common to use "dr." in front of your name, as you are a doctor of philosophy. In Dutch we distinguish "Doctor" (PhD) from "Dokter" (medical doctor). A GP is regularly referred to as a doctor (or dokter in Dutch), but is not a PhD (doctor in Dutch and elsewhere). After acquiring my PhD I was allowed to put Dr Wilkinson on my business cards. However, I would not be allowed to sell medical products under the brand-name Dr. Wilkinson, because that would suggest I was an MD. I do put that "brand" on condiments I make and occasionally hand out as gifts (Dr. Wilkinson's Sambal Setan (lit. Devil Sauce, a Madame-Jeanette-based chilli sauce) was well received in Indonesia :D.

In Germany they distinguish e.g. Dr. Rer. Sci. Nat. (Doctor in natural sciences) from a Dr. Habil., which means you have done a habilitation. Which means that you are able to train new PhDs. In the Netherlands you need to be a professor for that

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I always thought that a PhD meant someone could call themselves Dr, at least in the UK. Michael, that is fascinating bout the system in the Netherlands and as always, the German system seems nicely logical.

A friend of Robert Bauval added me as a friend on facebook (not that I really use it, but currently arranging a relatives visit next month and is more convenient than email). At least, I think it is one of his friends, a guy called Richard Fusniak. Googled him and he seems to be another of the crazy fools. A little too much to drink last night and sent an email to Bauval telling him that I thought people that made up facts to support their crackpot theories are some of the worst people on the planet, so maybe that's what prompted it.

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If you do three or four years (depending on the country) of research after your MSc you can offer your PhD thesis to a committee. Once you have passed your PhD it is common to use "dr." in front of your name, as you are a doctor of philosophy. In Dutch we distinguish "Doctor" (PhD) from "Dokter" (medical doctor). A GP is regularly referred to as a doctor (or dokter in Dutch), but is not a PhD (doctor in Dutch and elsewhere). After acquiring my PhD I was allowed to put Dr Wilkinson on my business cards. However, I would not be allowed to sell medical products under the brand-name Dr. Wilkinson, because that would suggest I was an MD. I do put that "brand" on condiments I make and occasionally hand out as gifts (Dr. Wilkinson's Sambal Setan (lit. Devil Sauce, a Madame-Jeanette-based chilli sauce) was well received in Indonesia :D.

In Germany they distinguish e.g. Dr. Rer. Sci. Nat. (Doctor in natural sciences) from a Dr. Habil., which means you have done a habilitation. Which means that you are able to train new PhDs. In the Netherlands you need to be a professor for that

Nice explanation there Michael, as I understand it in the UK your research has to be submitted to a Committee from your University which is after you have completed your Masters and that this application must be supported by the Professor that was your tutor and the University Dean, although the last is likely a formality if the Professor supports it. If they grant you the right to use Doctor then you do so only when you become tenured, if you do not have a position or you work outside your field you are not allowed to use the prefix until such time as you do...that was how it was explained by a Secretary at the Royal institute in a phone call today as I asked the question to clarify.

Clearly different nations have different criteria, and once the title is there is is simply accepted, although many researchers forgo using the prefix.

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Maybe if we ask these people who claim to be from Pleiades if they know their own location:

If they do not know, then Maybe we could ask that traveller in a blue box.

Thankyou, I had never encountered http://www.pleiadians.net/WHO_ARE_THEY_/who_are_they_.html but that site is wonderful. I know a guy that's part Cherokee Pleiadian, will ask him.

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Actually, in the Netherlands it is unusual to use the post-fix PhD. In Germany, the prefix Dr is even put on your passport (it legally is part of your name). I gather postdocs are usually addressed as dr as a matter of course, and the rules for tenured staff or tenure-track staff vary wildly.

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Actually, in the Netherlands it is unusual to use the post-fix PhD. In Germany, the prefix Dr is even put on your passport (it legally is part of your name). I gather postdocs are usually addressed as dr as a matter of course, and the rules for tenured staff or tenure-track staff vary wildly.

I tend to follow the "cause no offence" rule when talking to people with a PhD. Some want to be referred to as Doctor, others don't. It's no bother to me either way, but I have noticed that when I am visiting Germany, people are more likely to get offended if I don't than when I am back home. I had wondered why, though never enough to bother trying to find out, so thank you for the explanation.

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I would like to make some further comment here.

1: The rude cow you got an email from is best ignored, a PhD does not give you a Doctorate and thus if she does not possess a Doctorate she is breaking the law in certainly Europe, The USA and Canada, likely far more, as this is a "protected" Job Title, such as Policeman or similar is.

The legislation for medical practitioners is the Medical Act 1983. The word ‘doctor’ by itself, is not a protected title as it is an academic term rather than a professional title. The Act states a person:

‘who wilfully and falsely presents to be or takes or uses the name or title of physician, doctor of medicine, licentiate in medicine and surgery, bachelor of medicine, surgeon, general practitioner or apothecary, or any name, title, addition or description implying that he is registered under any provision of this Act, or that he is recognised by law as a physician or surgeon or licentiate in medicine and surgery or a practitioner in medicine or an apothecary, shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale'

Anyone with a doctorate (standard doctorate such as PhD or higher doctorate such as DSc, MD (not USA), DLitt) can legitimately call themselves doctor (as long as they are not pretending to be a medical practitioner).

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Nice explanation there Michael, as I understand it in the UK your research has to be submitted to a Committee from your University which is after you have completed your Masters and that this application must be supported by the Professor that was your tutor and the University Dean, although the last is likely a formality if the Professor supports it. If they grant you the right to use Doctor then you do so only when you become tenured, if you do not have a position or you work outside your field you are not allowed to use the prefix until such time as you do...that was how it was explained by a Secretary at the Royal institute in a phone call today as I asked the question to clarify.

You don't have to do a masters, nor do you have to have a professor as a tutor to get a doctorate. You don't have to be tenured to use the title either, you just have to have been awarded the degree.

Clearly different nations have different criteria, and once the title is there is is simply accepted, although many researchers forgo using the prefix.

We definitely agree on that bit.

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The title "Doctor" re. a Ph.D can be useful in provoking uncertainty among medical staff

- Particularly ornery senior ones who think they are acting in "Holby City"? :p [teasing]

My Uni muddied the waters by combined certain elements of the one year M.Sc and three year Ph.D. If you quit after the first year Ph.D, you might be awarded an M.Sc. If you went on to do the remaining two years you got a Dp.Adv.Stud.Sc. (!) in recognition of the first year study towards a Ph.D. Almost no one else knew this though... :grin:

The Germans had this Dip.Ing thing too? Bright "engineering" sorts equivalent to an M.Eng. I believe there are moves afoot to try to standardise EU qualifications, so this one may become uhm... deprecated? ;)

Edited by Macavity
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Interesting comments here, as this is something that has never really factored on my radar I have never given it that much thought, that was why i called the Royal Institute earlier, and what i was told there would appear to be as muddled as I believed the situation to be..

From what people are saying on here I can use the prefix Dr as I have a PhD...interesting..I never would of course, not pretentious enough and nor do I work in the field I completed either my degree or PhD in, I earn more money as an Electrical Engineer, for which I have the equivalent of a degree but gained by multiple certificates over 6 years..did toy with doing an MEng a couple of years back mind, still might.

I am getting curious about this because clearly we all think variations of the facts, which does sort of imply there is no recognised international standard for the use of the prefix...Ho hum, back to watching the grass grow I suppose..actually the paint on the Land Rover as I started to spray it today! :)

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Another take on the Orion & Pleiades (and now Scorpio) saga.........And yes, I did copy & paste :grin:

The myth and the truth known as The Seven Sisters

The Story of the Seven Sisters

There are several versions of the same myth. Depending on the research and your own personal preference the information actually remains pretty much the same. In a nutshell, the seven sisters were mortals whose parents were immortal...never a happy mix...and while they had their individual problems apparently one day they were out in the forest with their friend, Artemis, when along comes THE MIGHTY HUNTER! ORION! So here goes Orion, trying a few one line openers without success. Well really, what was Orion thinking? Artemis and all seven sisters were virgins and they were soooo NOT into boys! Their cold shoulder rebuke of his sexy self humiliated and bruised his giant ego so much that Orion just started to chase them through the forest.

What a jerk Orion was, as is, still, many of the other sex. This made Artemis so mad she decided she had to call in a favor from Zeus. Whatever made her think that was going to work out? The infamous saying "Be careful what you wish for, you just may get it" is a very old saying for a reason! Zeus helped the seven sisters all right...he turned them all into doves so they could fly away! Oh thanks a lot Great Zeus!

The seven doves flew so far into the heavens they became the stars known as the Pleiades. Poor Artemis was so upset to lose her friends that she put a bug in her brothers’ ear (that would be Apollo) to kill Orion by setting a trap for him with a monster Scorpion. That worked all right; Orion was killed, but here comes ole Zeus again and he puts Orion in the heavens right behind the Pleiades! So, the seven sisters are still being harassed by the mighty hunter, Orion. Zeus, ever the comedian, has the constellation Scorpio placed behind Orion so he is still being harassed by the Thing that was the cause of his death! Orion is so egotistical he thinks this is a GOOD DEATH!

And through it all who do you think is laughing the hardest? You got that right, ole Zeus sits back and belly laughs so hard it causes landslides and Tsunamis all around the Mediterranean!

To give Zeus a little credit, since Artemis is the Goddess of the moon, she is allowed to visit her friends, the seven sisters, whenever the moon passes close to the Pleiades. Thank the gods for small favors, eh?

Steve

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