Jump to content

SkySurveyBanner.jpg.21855908fce40597655603b6c9af720d.jpg

Deep Space Object Struggle


Recommended Posts

Hello all,

Just a quick cry for a nudge in the right direction; I've just bought a Skywatcher Skyline 200p, I have already achived spectacular viewings of Saturn & Jupiter and plenty of stars including a couple of clusters.

However despite my best efforts, so far I have had absolutly no luck with galaxies or nebulas. I've browsed the skies, used my maps and all I seem to find is on going sheets of starts, beutiful, but I do hold a deep desire to scope out such deep sky objects.

I only have the stock eye pieces at the moment, so they are what I've been using and my garden isn't too badly plauged by LP. Please let me know what you use and any helpful hints that may help me along a little!

Cheers Everyone & Clear Skies!

Peace, James.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 45
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Hi James, star charts IMO are not the easiest things to use when your starting out. I started with ( and still use) this http://www.stellarium.org/ its free & once you put in your location it'll give you a true representation of whats up there for whatever time you want. I bought a Telrad finder & theres an option on Stellarium to bring up the target circles you get on it onto the screen, u can then see how far away u are from your target & star hop to it (excuse the duff explanation its 5am & i'm getting ready for work :rolleyes: ) if you have a laptop take it outside & use the red night vision option, otherwise just keep popping in & out to check, untill you reach your target.

Also be aware that unless you've seen DSO's through a scope before, u could actually be bang on target & not realise its in view, they are feint (sometimes very feint ) gray smudges. Dont be disheartened though as once you start seeing them they all start to pop out as your eyes learn to 'see' them better, the more you look at em, the more you'll see.

Good luck

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also be aware that unless you've seen DSO's through a scope before, u could actually be bang on target & not realise its in view, they are feint (sometimes very feint ) gray smudges. Dont be disheartened though as once you start seeing them they all start to pop out as your eyes learn to 'see' them better, the more you look at em, the more you'll see.

+1 for that.

My advice...use Stellarium in conjunction with other star charts and be aware of what you're actually going to see. Don't expect views like those in images...the human eye can't achieve the exposure and light collection capabilities of a camera. So, patience and you'll get to your target.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As already said, Telrad, Stellerium, and you will only see grey smudges, with good seeing M51 may look like a couple of cats eyes with a whisp of grey/whitish spirals but nothing like the images seen on theses Forums,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I share your pain, I'm only starting out and would love to see things like M81 / M82 which others seem to say are very good at the moment but owing to my ignorance of the stars and the fact I have only a 130p meant I've failed 2 nights in a row now! I have seen the 'smudges' though... so perhaps I have... hmm more looking up-scope needed me thinks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you can find the Orion nebula, which I feel must be the easiest by far to find, that will give you an idea of the sort of 'smudge' you are going to see. So at least you will know when you are looking at one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello all! Thank you very much for taking the time to give me your advice and ideas, I really appreciate it. :smiley:

I knew about the smudges and that's what I have been searching for, I have been using 'Star Map Pro' app for iPhone and have been using it for a while but thanks for the link, I'll get that set up today and attempt tonight again if we get a clear sky. I will deffinetly try and pick up 'Left at Orion' too I've been hearing some good things about that book!

If anyone else has any input please let me know!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lots of great advice above. I can recall an observing session from Mid Wales (Madogs Wells) astronomy B&B back in 2002. I had my 6" Dob pointed at the Veil Nebula (using an O111 filter borrowed from the owner of the place). A couple were set up next to me with a new Meade 8" SCT. They had heard of the Veil, so sent the go-to so they could have a look. The scope finished slewing, they looked into the eyepiece, and said there's nothing there. So I took a look and said that the Veil was that faint wispy arc of light, and after what I said, they looked again, and saw it for the first time. Then we used the O111, and it really popped into view.

What I'm taking a long time to say, is that your scope can be pointing at the faint stuff but be hard to see. But it gets easier with practice. Make sure you start your search with your lowest power eyepiece, because that will increase your chances, as it shows the largest area of sky. Once you think you have a smudge of light, increasing the mag (not too much !) will give a darker sky background and a greater contrast between object and sky.

Good luck :smiley: Ed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I share your pain, I'm only starting out and would love to see things like M81 / M82 which others seem to say are very good at the moment but owing to my ignorance of the stars and the fact I have only a 130p meant I've failed 2 nights in a row now! I have seen the 'smudges' though... so perhaps I have... hmm more looking up-scope needed me thinks.

ONLY a 130p ? You have a capable scope that will show a lot :laugh: . If you saw two smudges of light in the same low power view, in the area of sky that you thought M81/82 are, then you probably saw them. If one was a round smudge, and the other a long smudge, then you can bet your boots you saw them.

Have another look next time :grin:, all the best, Ed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello,

People have already suggested TLAO which is a fantastic book.

But anything similar that gives a guide and a series of steps, or star hops, to get there will help.

I like the Sky @ Night mag for its monthly guide, I used it to have a look at Leo last night.

Last night, for me here was fairly pants, for looking at DSOs.

Regulars that I usually look at were dim and fairly unimpressive.

The Leo Triplet faint and smudgy, but still impressive.

Some of the DSOs however, I knew I was in the right place, but I just couldn't make anything out.

Patience is another thing you need plenty of in this hobby!

I've waited for weeks for a couple of clear nights and even then the conditions are far form ideal!

Still enjoyed it mind you.

Cheers

Ps. Psalm 19, Song of David, lovely!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You might like to try this site for particular types of objects in the night Sky.

http://tonightssky.com/MainPage.php

I have a 10" Dob but also with me were people with a similar scope to yours

On Wedneday night we managed to see the Owl Nebula in Ursa Major ( with M109 a galaxy in view as well with same 25mm stock eyepiece), M81 and M82 ( my recommendation for the first ones to attempt- you should get these in the same view with your 25mm eyepiece), the Eskimo Nebula ( that is a bit tricky as it's almost like a big star but diffuse) and also the easiest M42-that is visible naked eye.

Keep perservering, it does take practice, soon you'll be able to spot the differences.

Simon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As mentioned above, trying to find objects at the beginning can be a slow process which some people enjoy because it makes the the final capture that bit more satisfying, whilst others find the 'waiting' a frustrating experience. A newtonian scope design can further complicate the finding process a little bit by showing a view that is both inverted and back to front. The maps that many use of course don't present the objects in the same orientation as you see them in the scope and trying to judge distances when you are met by an explosion of stars in the eyepiece also takes some getting use to. The Telrad finder that Steve (nephillim) mentions is great for reducing some of the problems because it enables you to direct the scope to just the right area by keeping one eye on the sky. Once close, you can then fine tune using your optical finder to enable you to enjoy at the eyepiece. The additional advantage of the the Telrad apart from being modestly priced, is that you can download specific maps that have circles printed on them to help you judge distances between objects. Here's an example of an Ursa Major map (especially for Torin!) and the relationship between the objects and nearby navigation stars which can be seen using normal sight to help you place the telrad accurately - makes life so much easier. The perfect finder combination would be to also add a right angled erecting optical finder scope like this one which would offer a more comfortable viewing position and a correct orientated view but of course it isn't necessarily the cheapest option.

In short, good detailed maps (Turn Left at Orion as mentioned above) and a Telrad would make life a little easier if you don't want to explore the 'benefits' of star hopping but one thing is for sure, once you have found an object, you will never forget where it is or understand why you couldn't find it. :smiley:

Clear skies

James

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As mentioned above, trying to find objects at the beginning can be a slow process which some people enjoy because it makes the the final capture that bit more satisfying, whilst others find the 'waiting' a frustrating experience. A newtonian scope design can further complicate the finding process a little bit by showing a view that is both inverted and back to front. The maps that many use of course don't present the objects in the same orientation as you see them in the scope and trying to judge distances when you are met by an explosion of stars in the eyepiece also takes some getting use to. The Telradfinder that Steve (nephillim) mentions is great for reducing some of the problems because it enables you to direct the scope to just the right area by keeping one eye on the sky. Once close, you can then fine tune using your optical finder to enable you to enjoy at the eyepiece. The additional advantage of the the Telrad apart from being modestly priced, is that you can download specific maps that have circles printed on them to help you judge distances between objects. Here's an example of an Ursa Major map (especially for Torin!) and the relationship between the objects and nearby navigation stars which can be seen using normal sight to help you place the telrad accurately - makes life so much easier. The perfect finder combination would be to also add a right angled erecting optical finder scope like this one which would offer a more comfortable viewing position and a correct orientated view but of course it isn't necessarily the cheapest option.

In short, good detailed maps (Turn Left at Orion as mentioned above) and a Telrad would make life a little easier if you don't want to explore the 'benefits' of star hopping but one thing is for sure, once you have found an object, you will never forget where it is or understand why you couldn't find it. :smiley:

Clear skies

James

I must agree there James, I've only very recently started bagging DSO's, it took quite a few frustrating nights (not helped by the weather) & some great help from a fellow SGL member Matej (UN Skiorth) who I met up with a few weeks back and who showed me what these feint fuzzies 'really' look like, until I could do it myself & the few I have found I can home in on straight away now & even see quite a few with averted vision. Im now well & truely hooked. :grin:

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the recent advice comments! It's all really helpful. Just grabbed the recent copy of 'Sky at Night' mag for a browse of that and Looking into getting a copy of 'Turn Left at Orion' I just spotted a highly rated book called 'A Down to Earth Guide to the Cosmos' which is highly rated in the mag so I might give that a shot too!

I am happy to be persistant and patient with it for sure, I just wanted to check I wasn't making any errors or missing a vital piece of kit. The skies are so vast it sure can be very overwhelming!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

James, if you would like to preview Turn Left at Orion, you can use this link in which you can scroll through some of the pages to get a feel for the layout etc. I have read that the download version suffers from a lack of detail in the illustrations and if true, I would certainly be tempted to get the new spiral bound edition (4th) that has recently be published as it easier to use in the field.

James

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Get a Wixey angle guage - only £25'ish and it's magnetic so it will stick to the ota alongside the finder scope. Download Stellarium or Cartes du Ciel and get the elevation (Alt) of your object. Calibrate the Wixey - stick it on the tube. Aim the tube in the general area of your object and set it to the required elevation. Then you can just slowly pan side to side until your object comes into view.

Initially you'll be looking for a smudge - make sure your eyes are well dark adapted and you're viewing from as dark a site as possible. When you see the smudge use averted vision and it should appear in to the side of where you are looking. Most dso's will be faint but some of the brighter ones are a bit more obvious. It's easier during a new moon. Hth :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ONLY a 130p ? You have a capable scope that will show a lot :laugh: . If you saw two smudges of light in the same low power view, in the area of sky that you thought M81/82 are, then you probably saw them. If one was a round smudge, and the other a long smudge, then you can bet your boots you saw them.

Have another look next time :grin:, all the best, Ed.

Thanks for that - always nice to get the confidence boost in equipment that I've bought. Will certainly get out there and see if I can get my eye in on them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the further advice! The wixey idea sounds great, I'm certainly going to consider giving that a go in the near future!

I've just got back in from a breif hour in the garden and the skies cleared up nicely for me once again! I spend much of the time star hoping and seeing if anything would catch my eye.

Whilst nothing solid appeared, this it was probably nothing, but I did catch an object it looked like a brighter star with a significant global fuzz around it, any thoughts? According to my starmap there was many a DSO's around the area I found it (Lower section of the North Sky) including the Owl Cluster?

That said, I deeply enjoyed Saturn again this evening, such a stunning planet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is usually how I would describe a galactic core. The spiral arms and outer structures are the most feint parts. The central cores are easier to spot and can best be described as fuzzy stars with halos when the other stars in the view are focused points. If you see this you are either looking at a galaxy or a globular cluster :)

Oh also, if you have a newtonian design telescope there is a simple modification you can do to boost the contrast called flocking. If you are just starting out it might seem a little adventurous given that you have to take the telescope apart and reassemble it, this is easy as falling off a log I'll say, and you do have to collimate the scope again. I appreciate this is a little daunting at first but once you are confident you should look into it. It's a very cheap and easy mod that gives a real performance boost to the scope.

I put a post in the DIY asttronomer section called "Flocking good fun!" which has a step by step run through of the disassemble, flocking and reassemble process. I've done both my newts and have seen a real boost in contrast, probably around 30% I would say. It cost me £30 to do both scopes and took about an hour each only.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Star hopping with your Dob is what you will be using to navigate the night sky, in addition to the books mentioned, another recommended and very practical guide is : "Star-Hopping by Robert Garfinkle". Good copies can be picked up s/h as I did, at a very reasonable price, that won`t damage the pocket. But the best results for observing DSO is to transport your gear to a very dark site if you can, because although LP may not affect your property at all badly, there may be a city just a few miles away which could have some detrimental affect on your observations for the faint fuzzies, enjoy your Astronomy :)

John.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.