another calling it a day.

[rory]

after another fruitless evening im thinking its time to abandon my plans of astronomy as a hobby. the light pollution is getting worse.ive noticed this from my home observing site even over the last 12 months or so !

without traveling ,which i would rarely get the chance to do ,deep sky observing is almost non existent for me now.

i might just get some bins again for occasional use and flog the scope .

i made sure i was dark adapted, the scope was collimated and cooled. light shield fitted and so on. but even the "easier" galaxies are invisible for the most part.

i had one success with ngc 2903 ,just off the main of the lion, but little else . three hours of more or less nothing. i was getting better results two years ago with a smaller aperture. so i honestly believe much of the problem are these bright modern road lights that have popped up in the area ,and theres little to be done to combat the problem.

perhaps i will feel different about it in a few days time , but i doubt it . (slopes off to bed ,feeling all sorry for himself ! )

clear skies all.

[Bart]

Rory

I feel your pain. After waiting what seems like ages for clear skies I'm finding the galaxies tough tonight, and that's with 16" of aperture. It's just the transparency I think. I'm using my new 14mm 100* and only got glimpses of the Gxs properly. I'm about to slope off to bed too. Bit disheartening but another night will be better I'm sure (hoping...)

Barry

[ronin]

The reality of astronomy is a long way from what is often implied.

Concerning your scope there was a question on CN several months ago. It strangely asked would you see more with a 8" reflector or an 80mm refractor. A few people said the refractor. The reason being you would actually grab the 80mm go outside and look more often. So thereby seeing more. It is suspect a very true observation.

Posts for new people will rarely say you will be lucky to actually observe once in 2 weeks, and once a month can be close to reality.

I find that clubs are often amusing. Two clubs close to me observe on a Monday and a Wednesday. That really means if like the majority you work it is just plain difficult to go along and spend time on what could be a rare clear night observing. Just one club seems to have applied a little thought and arranged their observing nights on a Friday and/or a Saturday (if the Friday is called off).

I would suggest enquiring about a local club and see what they do. Someone may have the observing side worked out, as in a sensible night (Friday or Saturday) and a sensible location. Just join and go to the observing and leave the club and any politics to itself.

The reality is our weather is never good - we are at the wrong place if you search out climatic cells, a couple meet right over the top of us, it comes generally from the West and picks up moisture from the Atlantic and no-one can guarantee it being clear the nights it is convenient for us. The West of the UK is worse, and you are in the West.

I tend to observe when the oppertunity presents itself, I don't plan on any specific time. Means I don't go out much to observe but then I am more relaxed when I cannot, and pleased when I can.

Concerning the lights I assume the new LED types. They are white and point down. So you are in a brighter pool of light and if you think about it we use red lights to preserve our night vison, well the old sodium lights are/were pretty similar - they probably managed to preserve your night vison somewhat.

[sgazer]

I know what you mean, I sold my main kit last year. Despite moving to Australia, where there are more clear nights, working longer hours, longer commutes, exhaustion looking after kids with no family around, put a dent in my astro activities (I also try to mange too many other hobbies like fishing, kayaking and off-roading). I was feeling bad having $3ks worth of kit sitting in the corner. So I down sized. After selling a couple more of my items, I'll end up with the 4SE and mount and a FZ200 camera for the occasional imaging session. The 4" Mak is awesome on planets/moon and I've found that even with a 10" dob, I can't see many nebula, so I used the camera for that. The FZ200 is also my main daytime camera too, so it's not wasted. Just the 4SE sitting there, looking pretty. It's easy to setup and find something, so it can be used whenever I've got a spare hour or so.

[michaelmorris]

Rory, I share your pain. Living in Worcester myself I know how bad it can be. Rather than selling up, I took a different tack. Don't fight the conditions - work with them. Nowadays, most of my deep sky imaging/observing is done at star parties. At home, I concentrate on double star, planetary and lunar observing. All of these can be done easily from light-polluted Worcester.

[Andymarrison]

I also suffer with really bad light pollution at home - I live in a town not too far from London and Reading, and to make matters worse there's a car park light nearby that shines straight into our garden. Like Michael I've stopped trying to see any fainter nebulae or galaxies from home, and concentrate on planets, double stars and clusters for visual observing, all of which offer some lovely sights even under skies with bad LP. Also, I can still enjoy the brighter/easier DSOs like M42, M81, M82 etc. I only go to a couple of star parties per year, but when I do the poor conditions at home make the anticipation of the trip and the experience of some properly dark skies even more enjoyable! I agree that this winter's been a particularly rubbish one though - good luck with having some better conditions and a more enjoyable observing session soon.

[brantuk]

I've found that the observing part of astronomy has to be an ongoing thing that you keep on a back burner waiting for the weather to clear and life conditions to be right (eg work/life balance). Getting out there may not happen as much as we like, but when it does we get a good turnout and have a fabulous time.

In between there's equipment to buy or sell and tinker with and refine. Reading and research to do (books, periodicals, internet), astro related TV programmes to watch, forum discussions to be had, and indoor club meetings to attend. It's all part of the rich tapestry of astronomy as a hobby. It's also a good social experience with events to attend, and club visits to interesting places (obsy's, museums etc).

I'd hang on to the gear if I were you and maybe get a bit more involved with your local club to fill the gaps between outdoor sessions. There's loads going on and it's all useful stuff.

[Dave]

Organising observing evenings on Fridays and weekends sensible?

Whilst I "almost" agree with that statement, I would be far more likely to attend weekday observing sessions as it has far less impact on home life.

Some of my week nights are spent socialising with the hobby with various clubs.

Fridays and weekends spent in the company of the family.

(Unless it's really clear night then I'll pop out in the garden anyway!).

As regards the light pollution, I have felt many a time it's not worth continuing, plagued as I am.

As michaelmorris said above, when you learn to work with the conditions, instead of fighting them, you can still make progress and really enjoy the hobby if you choose your objects carefully. Leave the fainter stuff for star parties and the like in darker skies.

It still really surprises me how much I am able to achieve from my light polluted location, especially imaging.

Dave

[majapala]

Well said brantuk. Also, how about moving to a more rural area? How realistic is that?

[bomberbaz]

I tried to get onto M51 last night. Well i know i was on it, i just couldnt see it. I am going to concentrate on what i know i can as pwr michael above, looking at the things i know i can see. Got some great views if Jupiter ladt night, also got looking at several open clusters that although nit as bright as in truly dark skies, were at least visible. So its moon, planets, clusters etc from now on with nebula and galaxy work in the dark sky places.

[jonathan]

Well said brantuk. Also, how about moving to a more rural area? How realistic is that?

I agree with that. Living in a town or city is always going to limit what you are able to see, moving a few miles out of suburbia can make a huge difference.

[DaveS]

The LP in London has driven me to the dark side as I'm thinking that NB imaging is the only way to see emission nebulae while a good LP filter helps with galaxies.

Have a look at my Leo Triplet in the Imaging > Deep Sky section. I know it's a rubbish image but the LVM that night was about 3-3.5 with a distinctly orange sky. there is no way I'd have seen them visibly.

[MadAlbert]

I've found that the observing part of astronomy has to be an ongoing thing that you keep on a back burner waiting for the weather to clear and life conditions to be right (eg work/life balance). Getting out there may not happen as much as we like, but when it does we get a good turnout and have a fabulous time.

In between there's equipment to buy or sell and tinker with and refine. Reading and research to do (books, periodicals, internet), astro related TV programmes to watch, forum discussions to be had, and indoor club meetings to attend. It's all part of the rich tapestry of astronomy as a hobby. It's also a good social experience with events to attend, and club visits to interesting places (obsy's, museums etc).

I'd hang on to the gear if I were you and maybe get a bit more involved with your local club to fill the gaps between outdoor sessions. There's loads going on and it's all useful stuff.

Couldn't put it better myself

[andrew63]

it's strange that there has been a lot of publicity on dark skies and light pollution on the TV. Some local authorities are making the effort to counter the effects of light pollution and realise that it can be a growing concern for people in build up areas. While others flood the landscapes with what i assume are LED lights which are very intense. Might be worth an enquiry to the light pollution control dept. and see what response you get.

The suggestion of an 80mm scope or so on something portable, even a tripod makes a lot of sense to me. Can carry it, put it in the boot or whatever, and get a lot of use and joy for they more limited observing time that we all seem to get these days.

andrew

[MadAlbert]

There seems to be a perception that lighter = safer although I've heard of studies (CfFD) suggesting, to some degree, otherwise.

Reminds me of the ongoing experiments in other countries where some if not all the road markings in selected towns have been removed; people are actually driving safely in response.

[Moonshane]

Rory, I share your pain. Living in Worcester myself I know how bad it can be. Rather than selling up, I took a different tack. Don't fight the conditions - work with them. Nowadays, most of my deep sky imaging/observing is done at star parties. At home, I concentrate on double star, planetary and lunar observing. All of these can be done easily from light-polluted Worcester.

I completely agree with this to some extent (i.e. adapt) although for me it's visual not imaging and I am lucky in that although I live in a badly light polluted area, 16" of aperture still allows me to see some wonderful things at home which is where I do most observing.

Put your scope away for a bit and choose your nights. you'll be happier I think and the sky's going nowhere.

[Qualia]

Ay, it's a tiresome journey stealing looks when we can with work, family, chronic light pollution and weather all conspiring to keep us indoors. It's a long road and on the portal of every entry into astronomy ought to be inscribed: You will suffer for this and be grieved but there will be adventure and wonderful times. If you hang on in there, the sky will be a trusting and good companion. The years will tick by, so much will happen and on one of those days there will be Jupiter, back where it was originally all those years ago when you started out a younger man. The passing of a companion will be dated by the stars that were in the sky that night; the phases of the moon will mark a trying time and its soft light will blanket a tender evening you spent with your loved ones. The evening sky will be there to console you when the hustle and bustle of daily life has taken its toil and when we become a little too much of ourselves and others, begin to believe in our own self-importance there will be the ancient galaxies and stars to gently nudge us back into place. And when we are older and looking back, those cloudy, uneventful evenings will appear to us as a singular, non-descript event, yet shining from them like a host of gleaming stars will be those stargazing evenings where everything just seemed perfect and the universe at last could murmur its secrets. Don't pack up; there will be nights and more nights.

[bomberbaz]

Never knew was a poet qualia

[Beulah]

There might be some expectation and pressure that we should be outside every time the sky clears as we don't get them that often.

As many have said already what we do in the daylight hours eats up our energies and having to combat the cold, bad seeing, dewing, light pollution and encroaching cloud at the end of what can be a very stressful day working just 'to get by' can accumulate into a mainly negative experience in astronomy.

What I have learned is to take the pressure off. Only go out there if I am not tired and try not to be a 'Messier Hero' - revisit those old friends and discover a new one - observe them at leisure and REALLY OBSERVE. Shucks, I am made to feel guilty enough when the sun's up - let alone feeling it when I drag my sorry self into bed on a clear night because I am too tired to do anything else.

Even if you get out three times a year to remote, darker sites it would be well worth it.

[JamesM]

One amazing object that is always immune from light pollution and which can also provide a wealth of interesting phenomena, features and general curiosity and that is our very own Moon. Admittedly like the sun, it can still fall victim to the weather but what a great object to research and explore! The lunar 100 will keep you busy over the different phases as will the Sky @ Night's very own Moon Watch articles (now written by Pete Lawrence) introducing you to structural detail and other points of interest.

Don't sell your kit, just use it in a different way and it will still provide you with some great observations.

Clear skies

James

[spaceboy]

after another fruitless evening im thinking its time to abandon my plans of astronomy as a hobby. the light pollution is getting worse.ive noticed this from my home observing site even over the last 12 months or so !

without traveling ,which i would rarely get the chance to do ,deep sky observing is almost non existent for me now.

i might just get some bins again for occasional use and flog the scope .

i made sure i was dark adapted, the scope was collimated and cooled. light shield fitted and so on. but even the "easier" galaxies are invisible for the most part.

i had one success with ngc 2903 ,just off the main of the lion, but little else . three hours of more or less nothing. i was getting better results two years ago with a smaller aperture. so i honestly believe much of the problem are these bright modern road lights that have popped up in the area ,and theres little to be done to combat the problem.

perhaps i will feel different about it in a few days time , but i doubt it . (slopes off to bed ,feeling all sorry for himself ! )

clear skies all.

If I got a £ for every time I felt like jacking the hobby in I would have the ED120 I've always wanted by not lol.

If I may point one thing out though and this isn't going to help restore your faith in the hobby so much as to give you a better understanding of the problem you are encountering.

As astronomers we are often so quick to jump on light pollution as being the sole bane of deep sky observing when it is often more than not all down to the atmosphere itself to weather we get a productive nights view of faint and fuzzes.

Just as thermals and turbulence in the atmosphere can make high magnification planetary observing more like looking through the bottom of a glass of water so to can moisture and dust in the atmosphere cause all sorts of problems when we try to observe faint and fuzzes. We refer to the above mentioned as seeing and transparency respectively. I first noticed my galaxy and nebula hunting taking a dramatic downward spiral during the Iceland volcano eruption where it seemed even on clear nights the brighter constellations were all but washed out despite there not being the characteristic orange glow of light pollution.

I admit due to this I took to selling all my beloved Naglers and down size my kit considerably as I just couldn't justify ££££'s of astro kit gathering dust during all the cloudy nights and having dismal views of the night sky when it was clear. Thanks to fellow members words I didn't give up the hobby altogether but found myself leaning more towards imaging. Don't get me wrong I'm no imager in the sense it's used on the forum but it allowed me to see the night sky in a way that was not possible visually when the skies weren't playing ball. This has also led to a keen interest in photography that keeps me happy during the summer months when getting out under the stars is a 1:00 onwards affair that is not something I would ascertain when I have an early morning the day after.

One thing that has helped me through all the cloud, light pollution, neighbours gas flumes/ security lights is a simple 60mm refractor on a camera tripod and an 8-24 zoon lens. I can be in and out between clouds in a drop of a hat. I can pack it in the trunk of the car if I go out for a drive and it makes a great little solar scope. You might say well your not going to see much with such a small scope but my point is I'm getting to see something and so what is cloud comes over as I know I can run back out when it clears. Sure I'm not going to see a great deal of detail but it has reminded me every time how much I enjoy the hobby why I'm glad I didn't sell all of my kit.

My point being there are other avenues you can explore while still keeping your hand in the hobby. I'm sure we have all had those moments of why am I even bothering but there is star light at the end of a refractor

[fondofchips]

Some good advice here as always, easy to get downhearted when the conditions are against you. But any outside hobby is governed by the weather & light pollution is a real pain. I have noticed that there is a more restricted view since High Pressure dominated our weather in mid January, so give it a little longer as the murk that has gathered under the current weather conditions will clear eventually.

[scarp15]

It can be multi-faceted. Sometimes, usually mid week, I simply like to step outside in my backyard and marvel at a clear transparent sky, picking out the familiar patterns for 5 minutes. At other times, when not at work the following day, I still like to set up for an observing session at home. Mostly though I prefer to get out of the city all together. Each situation is fairly occasional, with the current weather patterns, yet they all present specific objectives and highlights, determined by the parameters set by each circumstance.

[rory]

some interesting and thought provoking posts, thanks for the replies, will mull things over.

much to consider.

regards.

[foundaplanet]

I can't really add any more than what has been said. I often feel like astronomy is a lifetime of deliverance but those moments do make for a better life.