Just a silly question

[Ronnie67]

This is just something which has just got me thinking and I would like to read what your ideas and comments are:

Many people like myself believe that we do not live in a single universe but many, and our universe is but one of them. Hear me out. Black holes, what are they, the death of a large star exploding creating what we call the black hole, no one knows for sure what lies within its black void. So hear is what got me thinking, call me daft, but if no one knows the answer perhaps it might turn a few heads. The big bang theory, what if and I am saying what if, the big bang was actually caused by the forming of a super massive black hole. I know I did say it might sound daft, but could it actually happen, no one knows what lies within a black hole or what exist deep within the core, so maybe these black holes are actually the births of new universes. Each black hole creates new universes and ours was created about 7 Billion years ago.

Out there are thousands, millions or even more Galaxies, so why not more universes. Our universes could even be just a spec of what is out there, we see galaxies clustered around holding solar systems in place and thousands of planets, billions of stars. I believe they must be more than one universe out there.

Whats your comments?

[Ouroboros]

Sounds a bit like Lee Smolin's fecund universe theory to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Smolin

[Ronnie67]

Cheers for that Ouroboros, Ithought I was the only one sounding daft , but it does get you thinkin g

[Ouroboros]

I like that Smolin's idea includes the evolutionary principle that those universes in which the physics favours the formation of black holes will be the most productive of further universes.

[Ronnie67]

Its a shame his idea didn't attract much attention. I actually think it deserved far more than it go, and same was said by Leonard Susskind,

[nameunknown]

So you postulate a "multiverse", consisting of a large number (possibly an infinite number) of different (each possibly infinite) universes - but why do we only need one multiverse - could there not be an infinite number of those (and so on...) with every possible set of laws of physics, alternative histories and possible futures? My problem with that is the chance of being in a sensible, predictable universe would be vanishingly small and you would have to expect things like random changes in taxes, hordes of Z-list celebrities, gangnam style and people on forums writing things like muhuferfgf reueuyyue reuheevb kojkoyu....

Still, I do like the Smolin and Suskind arguments: "When I woke this morning, I realized that I must be a bacterium. They are the fastest reproducers and they outnumber everything else by a factor of trillions" (- ah, he must be a theoretician, otherwise he would have been up all night observing...)

[ronin]

A black hole is just a gravitational field where the escape velocity exceeds that of light.

We have an escape velocity here on earth, why consider one greater the c any different.

A black hole has no special gravitational properties, things orbit them and can be calculated using good old 400 year old newtonian mechanics.

Matter is squashed in one but so is it in a white dwarf and a neutron star.

Our sun would be a black hole if you took the matter and squashed it down to a 3 meter sphere.

So exactly what is special about a black hole ?

[Matt Scunthorpe]

I always liked the idea of our Universe is like a bubble, which is on the side of another bubble etc, im pretty sure it was Doctor Who i heard that from first lol.

But i also remember a theory, anyone here play the sims? that we could all be game characters living in a world like the sims, with bigger people outside controlling us. Personally i prefer the bubbles lol.

[Ouroboros]

A feature of a scientific theory is that it is supposed to be testable (or falsifiable if you prefer) by experiment or observation. I've never heard of any proposed test of the multiverse 'theory'. That's not to say there isn't one of course. So for the moment I see it as no more than a would-be theory - a hypothesis in other words.

[Quarky]

This is just something which has just got me thinking and I would like to read what your ideas and comments are:

Many people like myself believe that we do not live in a single universe but many, and our universe is but one of them. Hear me out. Black holes, what are they, the death of a large star exploding creating what we call the black hole, no one knows for sure what lies within its black void. So hear is what got me thinking, call me daft, but if no one knows the answer perhaps it might turn a few heads. The big bang theory, what if and I am saying what if, the big bang was actually caused by the forming of a super massive black hole. I know I did say it might sound daft, but could it actually happen, no one knows what lies within a black hole or what exist deep within the core, so maybe these black holes are actually the births of new universes. Each black hole creates new universes and ours was created about 7 Billion years ago.

Out there are thousands, millions or even more Galaxies, so why not more universes. Our universes could even be just a spec of what is out there, we see galaxies clustered around holding solar systems in place and thousands of planets, billions of stars. I believe they must be more than one universe out there.

Whats your comments?

In a documentary Stephen Hawking done called curiosity one of the theories he stated was that the Big Bang was sort of situated in a black hole. One of the biggest questions is what was before the Big Bang, Hawking pointed out that there could not of been anything before the Big Bang I.e a "creator" as time stops in a black hole, it does not exist so there could not be anything before it as there was no time.

I also like the multiverse scenario, there could be universes that could not support life like a 2d universe!

[ollypenrice]

A black hole is just a gravitational field where the escape velocity exceeds that of light.

We have an escape velocity here on earth, why consider one greater the c any different.

A black hole has no special gravitational properties, things orbit them and can be calculated using good old 400 year old newtonian mechanics.

Matter is squashed in one but so is it in a white dwarf and a neutron star.

Our sun would be a black hole if you took the matter and squashed it down to a 3 meter sphere.

So exactly what is special about a black hole ?

Nothing is special about a black hole. This isn't Smolin's point. It's the infinitesimal which is special and which might seed a new universe. Smolin does say that this is not the be all and end all of his hypothesis. The really important thing is that evolution by natural selection could be used to explain why the seeming improbability of our own universe (which appears to require remarkably fine tuning of several parameters to work) becomes a probability rather than an improbability if we find a way of invoking evolution by natural selection. Prior to Darwin it seemed improbable that the eye (the usual example!) could have 'just happened.' After Darwin it does not have to be improbable. That does not prove Darwin right (though personally I believe he is) but it explains away a seeming improbability. And so with Smolin. It doesn't really matter how evolution by natural selection selects in fecund universes, it's the idea that this might happen which is exciting.

Smolin is taken seriously by hitters as big as Murray Gell-Mann, let's not forget. Personally I found The Life of the Cosmos an incredibly stimulating read.

Smolin does discuss the extent to which his hypothesis might qualify as a theory by making predictions and being falsifiable. I'd say it was decidedly marginal though not out for the count. But, and this is a big but, scientifc theories begin with hypothesis. I think Jocelyn Bell said fairly recently that not enough thought is given to that critical first step, the inspired hypothesis. Kill that first step and you kill science. Everyone should at least read Smolin.

Olly