Unbelievable!!!

[Cath]

OMG beam me up Scotty.

Careful what you wish for

[GrahamJ]

How you come up with that diatribe from reading my post I have no idea. But please don't assume to know my attitude

[The Sailor]

Regarding the pupils being taught about the universe in schools I would rather they were taught about their own country first, I was reading that the inspirition for some of the changes in the curriculm was about how a now defunct English Z lister thought that East Anglia was in another country

Jim

[Shibby]

It's very common to not realise that the Sun is a star. I've also spoken to people who thought it orbits the Earth... that the Sun and Moon are the same thing... all sorts of things that seem shocking to us lot!

As some have already said, in most cases this is because it's simply not important to people's lives so they have not taken the time to stop and wonder. Unfortunately, the individual in the story seems to be one of those few who will not listen to reason, does not care to learn and would rather stick to their own ideas.

PS: I was going to just say "230V" but today I have learnt something: 224-240V. Boilies. Probably strawberry.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Gentlemen, please keep it civil.

As I see it people are misunderstanding each other. I think the main reason many criticize said colleague is not the fact that he did not know about the sun being a star, hey, I have had a friend with a PhD in biology who did not, and he certainly was not stupid.

It is the fact tat the man did not accept correction from an expert that irks. If he simply had not cared to much either way, fine. Astronomy is not everyone's cup of tea, no worries. However, the fact that he was essentially calling the OP a liar that really gets wedged firmly up my sinuses. This is not a matter of disdain for people who are not interested, it is annoyance or even anger at being called a liar. Shaking your head and laughing about it is the best reaction I can think of.

[ollypenrice]

How you come up with that diatribe from reading my post I have no idea. But please don't assume to know my attitude

Steady on, I was careful not to presume to know your attitude. I said that there are maybe a variety of ways of looking at whether or not some of the posts are necessarily 'holier than thou.' You did use the phrase and I'm responding to it.

My point about community runs beyond anything you said and I didn't intend to imply that it was your attitude. It said it by way of explanation as to why I don't think it arrogant or holy to want to share sound information. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Olly

[ollypenrice]

Regarding the pupils being taught about the universe in schools I would rather they were taught about their own country first, I was reading that the inspirition for some of the changes in the curriculm was about how a now defunct English Z lister thought that East Anglia was in another country

Jim

Surely it doesn't have to be 'The whereabouts of East Anglia' OR 'The nature of the sun and stars?' I say we go for both! If something has to face the curricular axe, how about ............. (Nominate your suggestion.) An aside, but the great omission in our our curriculum seems to me to be the Law.

Olly

[The Sailor]

Surely it doesn't have to be 'The whereabouts of East Anglia' OR 'The nature of the sun and stars?' I say we go for both! If something has to face the curricular axe, how about ............. (Nominate your suggestion.) An aside, but the great omission in our our curriculum seems to me to be the Law.

Olly

My suggestion Olly would not be something that is taught in schools but at home and that is morals. We could go on infinitum on what is missing from teaching, I think the problem lies in what people want to learn, some people can only take in so much before they lose it .

Jim

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I always feel teaching kids our proper place in the universe leads to

1. a lot of enthusiasm in most kids (or all ages), triggered by a sense of wonder
   
2. a sense of humility: all sorts of human squabbles suddenly seem petty
   
3. a sense of how precious our little planet is, given the overwhelming destructive forces out there
   

Quite beneficial I would say

[nephilim]

I dont really want to start anything here, but i'm afraid I must show my age & say 'respect', when I was younger & my grandparents used to comment on the lack of respect shown nowadays (years ago now) I thought they were just being 'old', although i'm 'only' 40, I now understand what they meant.

[ollypenrice]

I always feel teaching kids our proper place in the universe leads to

1. a lot of enthusiasm in most kids (or all ages), triggered by a sense of wonder
   
2. a sense of humility: all sorts of human squabbles suddenly seem petty
   
3. a sense of how precious our little planet is, given the overwhelming destructive forces out there
   

Quite beneficial I would say

I agree on all counts.

Olly

[Quatermass]

It is quite amazing how little people understand about the universe even the most basic things but then again that is a good chance to show them something amazing and tell them all about it, I showed my next door neighbor my pic of the Andromeda Galaxy taken from my back garden he was amazed and said is that thing really up there! Oh yes I said and told him all about it now he comes round and looks with me through my telescope for himself. Share the knowledge people share the knowledge

[laser_jock99]

You can't blame your colleague for his ignorance - the education system is to blame. According to our Government this is all primary school children need to know by Keystage 2......

The Earth and beyond

4. Pupils should be taught:

The Sun, Earth and Moon

a. that the Sun, Earth and Moon are approximately spherical

Periodic changes

b. how the position of the Sun appears to change during the day, and how shadows change as this happens

c. how day and night are related to the spin of the Earth on its own axis

d. that the Earth orbits the Sun once each year, and that the Moon takes approximately 28 days to orbit the Earth.

Light and sound

3. Pupils should be taught:

Light and dark

a. to identify different light sources, including the Sun

b. that darkness is the absence of light

[Peter Drew]

One of the main priorities and also the most rewarding result at the Astronomy Centre, is showing the general public the wonders of the night sky. It is true that the majority have little prior knowledge but faced with experienced amateur astronomers explaining things to them at an appropriate level and the chance to use good equipment as proof, I can't recall anyone previously "ignorant" of the facts, challenging the enlightenment.

[ollypenrice]

I think that Quatermass's point about showing a picture from your back garden is a really good one. Yes, it really is there. An experience like that (just being given a quick sky tour in a small scope) launched my own interest. It was the idea that 'yes, that really is Saturn up there' that amazed me so much. This might be a way for the OP to relaunch the conversation.

Olly

[rowan46]

I mentioned to my work colleague today that I had risen early to capture some videos of Saturn (he said I was crazy to do so). Anyway, he said his girlfriend lives in the countryside, and is blessed with dark skies, which gives an amazing view at night. I said something along the lines of “yeah I bet it is spectacular seeing all those distant suns which we miss in light polluted towns”.

He sort of gave me a blank look and blinked a few times before saying “suns?”.

My reply was “yes, suns, stars!”

To which he replied “stars ain't suns, that's impossible there is only one sun and that's ours”

I was gob-smacked. For someone to reach his late 40's and not understand the basics of the universal is unbelievable!

I asked him what he thought they were? “well they are planets and moons” was his reply.

I argued with him for about 10mins about it, but he was adamant he was right, because no one has ever visited these 'stars'.

My closing line was “I suppose you think the earth is flat too”.

Are people that naïve about the universal? I'm still gob-smacked!

Is this man normally stupid or could he have been winding you up? It seems unusual for a person who is ignorant of a subject to be that dogmatic. I have always found that unless there are reasons most people who are unknowing tend to take the word of someone who obviously knows more.

[Angus Wright]

What I find sad in 21st century Britain is that there are faith schools actually teaching children that the Earth is no more than ten thousand years old!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[sparkyjon]

What I find sad in 21st century Britain is that there are faith schools actually teaching children that the Earth is no more than ten thousand years old!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

can of worms lol,, i totally agree personally...

[Cath]

It seems unusual for a person who is ignorant of a subject to be that dogmatic.

I've know several people in my life who are as dogmatic as anyone could ever get, they will not accept anything they are hearing. Their are a LOT of them about.

[Pig]

Poor Graham - you have sparked one off here - I agree with you mate the guy at work is soft in the head - simples.

I wonder if he has to learn to walk again with each new day. left foot first then right foot, keep repeataing till I need to stop

I dont think you suggested anything like what is in most of these replies.

Very naughty to judge people Only kidding

[Zakalwe]

You can't blame your colleague for his ignorance - the education system is to blame. According to our Government this is all primary school children need to know by Keystage 2......

I know what you are saying, but I find it hard to blame the schools in this case. If the person was 13, then I'd say yes blame the schools. But he was in his late 40's. I am mystified that someone can live nearly 5 decades in the UK and be so ignorant of basics.

The second point is that he is wilfully ignorant. When presented with an alternative view he argued against it, using an arguement based on incredulity and ignorance. There is no shame in being ignorant of a fact. What is shameful is being active in ignorance, and arguing from a position of zero knowledge. It's the ultimate form of intellectual cowardice IMHO.

There are people out there who have absolutely no interest in learning anything new. I personally know one person who is proud of the fact that the last book that they read was in school. I couldn't imagine a life without books or learning something new about the world.

[Qualia]

I've taught now for over 15 years, generally to bright and gifted children from the ages of around 10 to 18; the classes are great, there's a lot of fun and good level learning going on but they generally don't want to hear that we all came from stardust, or that the stars are other suns, or other such things - they're pretty much boring subjects, they're part of that other grey and tiresome world of exams, and marks and nasty red crosses and corrections and 'getting on' and 'striving', 'beating' and 'winnning'.

Three evenings a week I teach adults and the story is very much the same. The adults I have taught over the last 15 years or so, do not want to investigate the dubious claims made by mainstream economic courses at university, they do not want to study the role of the media and systems of propaganda in a functioning democratic state, they're not interested in the idea that we're all stardust or that the stars are other suns, or to look into Heidegger's Being and Time, Nietzsche's Geneology of Morality or Kant's Critique of Pure Reason. They'd prefer to have a general chit chat, something that will take their minds away fom the mundanity of the everyday, the living day of family and jobbing sloth.

It is not a crime to be ignorant and contrary to sloppy readings or adoptions of Mill's Socrates and Pig, it is no shame, nor should it be morally reprehensible to be ignorant of x, y or z. I'm amazed when I go to the UK and the folk I meet cannot speak another language or two, cannot tell you the object from the subject in a simple sentence or how exactly the subjunctive tense works. I'm amazed when I travel and meet folk who haven't read and studied Darwin's Origins, Marx's Capital, Foucault's Crime and Punishment, or a single word by Chomsky but ought I be so pompous as to think they are ignorant?

Evidently, opportunities for learning will excite some more than others and given our limitation of time and resources, it doesn't seem that inappropriate to simply disregard many fields as not being of one's concern. One way or another, we are all ignorant and dogmatic about and of something or other. So, by like manner, we ought to respect and value others' expertise in whatever it happens to be and of their ignorance in other areas of life.

We should, in our way, and by way of the examples given above, not condemn igorance as if it were some moral fault of the agent, but celebrate ignorance for the opportunities it could give rise to. Ignorance ignites interest, kindles intrigue and excites questions. It is surely the very foundation of all that is excellent about our species. Perhaps the three most beautiful and humbling words in the English language are not "I've the truth!" but "I don't know."

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Whenever I taught astronomy (earliest was in 1978, teaching fellow pupils at school), it was in a no-exam-attached setting. That is very different from a regular teaching setting. When teaching at schools (I have done a fair bit) there is often a "snobbery of indifference" and kids do not want to even seem to be interested. When you speak to them separately, at night by your telescope, on a campsite, without peer pressure, attitudes change dramatically.

[Tim]

My wife once said,

"They are going 17000mph in the Space Station? It's lucky the pilots dont crash into the stars isn't it?"

:s

[nephilim]

Poor Graham - you have sparked one off here - I agree with you mate the guy at work is soft in the head - simples.

I wonder if he has to learn to walk again with each new day. left foot first then right foot, keep repeataing till I need to stop

I dont think you suggested anything like what is in most of these replies.

Very naughty to judge people Only kidding

And each time he starts turning blue, needs reminding to breathe as even though you cant see oxygen, you really do need it