Potential new star gazer needs some advice

[fruity]

I really want to get started in amateur astronomy and have looked at a few beginner telescopes. I saw Seben 700-76 Reflector Telescope huge Big Pack incl. on Amazon for £56.99 and although it has favourable reviews, I came across some posts on this site that said to avoid anything from Seben. After reading this, I found a similarly priced Skywatcher Mercury 607, also on Amazon and I know Skywatcher is supposed to be a better brand.

Would the Skywatcher be the better telescope for the money? Bearing in mind I'm new to this and not entirely sure if I'll be sticking to it enough to make it worthwhile, so I'm not looking to spend a lot just yet (though if I get taken by this I'll more than likely upgrade to something much better).

Thanks.

[Guy Wells]

I have never heard of Seben; but reading the first line about one of their scopes (114mm Reflector) it says this: "The combination of an enormous 114mm aperture and a remarkable focal length of 1000mm"...this tells me that they are rubbish. 114mm, enormous? That's a starter scope with the SMALLEST size mirror. I would go with Sky Watcher IMHO.

Maybe they work well..who knows?....anyone?...anyone?....

[foundaplanet]

Would the Skywatcher be the better telescope for the money? Bearing in mind I'm new to this and not entirely sure if I'll be sticking to it enough to make it worthwhile, so I'm not looking to spend a lot just yet (though if I get taken by this I'll more than likely upgrade to something much better).

I would probably get a nice pair of binoculars to start with and see how you feel about the hobby once you have spent some time out under the stars. If you find that it grabs your interest then start thinking about a telescope.

[skywatcher58gb]

Hi and welocome, Seben is a brand that very few amateurs would consider, and I assume 76 is the mirror size and 700 the focal length. With a 76mm mirror you will see very little, the mount will more than likely be unsteady. The sky watcher is is a good make but a 60mm refractor will not give good views due to low light gathering. The minimum size I would consider for a reflector is 114mm, but more likely recommend a 130mm. I know that around £60 seems a good buy but you get what you pay for, looking around various sites one of the best buys I have found is this at £139 http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-sky-watcher-130-explorer. this comes with an equitorial mount so you can also at least manually track an object, and 130mm is a good mirror size.

Dave

[Biggazza88]

Hi fruity

I'm going to have to agree with the posts above in saying the seben brand is a rubbish one.

Once you have been a part of this forum for a few weeks you will see how when everything that is branded as seben it is avoided. All apart from the colimation cap they sell, any manufacturer can get one of those to work!! go for the skywatcher instead, there the most popular brand of astro related stuff for a good reason. Good luck with your choice

[earth titan]

Here's a long stick! Would you like to borrow it, to practice not touching it with?

Seben aren't exactly the best. I would hunt around for something a little better with a bigger objective and a decent mount.

A 76mm mirror is tiny and will not inspire with views.

You would do better with a set of binoculars to start.

Typed by me on my fone, using fumms... Excuse eny speling errurs.

[Lee M]

My advise would be to read as much as you can, not just here, but if you look around there's plenty of links to other things on the web. Take your time until you know what you want & what's in your budget. There's plenty of 'what scope' threads to read back on. I found I spent about 3 weeks getting more and more confused until things started to become clearer and I started to have a better idea of what I wanted and what compromises that would mean.

If you're feeling dead enthusiastic and want a free starter - download Stellarium, have look at what constellations will be where tomorrow night at a time that suits you and head out to the back garden or somewhere dark and try to pick a few out. Hopefully it's looking like it should be clear.

[Aenima]

After trying the 130p explorer I was immediately hooked, so much so that it would have been better in my case to go straight for the 200p - but that is the problem with hindsight - if you want to test it out then maybe find a local enthusiast or astro group to take a look in person.

If you like it then take into account where you will be setting up - a garden? or will you have to carry it somewhere to use it? Telescopes are usually bigger than first imagined, and to wait until you receive it in the post to find out its too big and heavy will mean it not being used as often as you'd like.

A forum like this one is a good place to start, ask questions and advice until you get an idea of whats involved...

Personally Ive only found binoculars useful for locating things quickly, they dont really give the same views or prepare you for using something like a 6 or 8 inch reflector and mount, but this is purely my opinion

If you literally want a cheap scope to check it out first then anything telescope shaped will do that, however you probably will want to upgrade almost instantly so it may help to find a way to try it out without wasting your time and money.

Its a great hobby and Skywatcher come well recommended for the price, though its advisable to research which type of scope will suit your needs before buying.

Best of luck with it.

Regards

Aenima

[Rich MedRev]

Fruity

take your time and learn the sky, a good star atlas and a copy of Turn left at Orion.

Save a little and give yourself a fair starting budget of £300 to £400 to include the scope and some EP's, filters etc

In the meantime a decent pair of bins will show plenty from a dark site.

I would advocate an 8" Dobsonian as your first serious scope as it is portable enough and easy to set up and has plenty of aperture to keep you happy for years.

if you can't wait then the Skywatcher Heritage 130 is a nice starter scope.

Good luck

[JAG007]

Hi there Fruity, as a newbie myself and eager to get a scope and look at the sky more, I have learned several vital lessons from this site. Speak to as many people as you can about the subject, ask questions about scopes , but above all try them out at star parties or observatories. This way you will be better placed to get what you want without regretting it later. I still have not purchased anything yet, but I am being drawn to the 8" dobsonion scope. I will try others though before I finally make my decision.

I will say this, use some bino's first, I have a very cheap pair at 12 X 25, but at least this gives me something to look at the skies with.

Don't be afraid to wait, after all the stars will still be there tomorrow.

John.

[AndyWB]

if you can't wait then the Skywatcher Heritage 130 is a nice starter scope.

I am awaiting my birthday when I hope to receiver one of these (or at least, I've been banned from telescope buying until afterwards by my girlfriend).

I was rather influenced by "What you need to know before buying a telescope", and my logic was:

- I don't want to wait ages before getting a scope

- The Heritage 130 is a fairly cheap introduction

- It's really portable (important as I live in the middle of a large town), and small (storage space is limited)

- If I later decided to get a bigger scope I think I'd still want a dinky really portable scope

- Also, later I'd hopefully have more of an idea of what I'd want as a second scope. I may discover things I hadn't expected about my viewing habits.

Now I just have to wait for my damn birthday - it's taking ages. In the meantime binos do work, or even mk I eyeball and a dark sky.

[m12_shakes]

I started out with a pair of binoculars, and I still use them now. It help me learn the night sky and enabled me to see some fantastic views!

I would definitely start with a decent pair of bins and take it from there. I've got a pair of Helios Quantum-4 15*70, and to give you a rough idea, it'll allow you to see Jupiter and its moons in good clarity, various nebulas etc and it takes no effort to set up either.

Regards,

m12

[redneon]

I'd agree with what others have said and start with a good pair of binoculars. I started with a set of 10x50 Olympus binos and am still impressed with the image I get through binoculars. I still use them regularly too. There's no comparison for low magnification stuff than a pair of binoculars, in my opinion.

It's very easy to be disappointed with the quality of a cheap scope and be dissuaded from the hobby altogether but I'm yet to meet anyone who doesn't "Wow!" with a good pair of 10x50 binoculars.

[Pappy Nick]

Hi Fruity ....

I know it's twice as much as you're looking to pay, but it's a +1 from me regarding the Heritage 130p. And look at it this way - if Astronomy turns out to be "not your thing" - you should be able to make most of money back selling it. I doubt you could say that for the Seben scope.

HTH

[fruity]

Thank you everyone for all your replies. It's certainly given me a lot to think about.

I actually "borrowed" some binoculars from my dad a while ago and go out into my garden to have a look at the moon when I can. I've even trained them on Jupiter once or twice, with Google Skymap pointing the way for me. They're Centon 12x50mm field 5.5° not sure if that's particularly powerful. The only problem with using them is the significant wobble when using them which ruins the view for me.

Having moved from an awfully light polluted area last year (really, there was never really night, just orange sky) to Surrey which is significantly darker I've been able to see so much more than I ever have. I used to be able to pick out Orion and other major constellations easily where I lived but now I can see Orion and a whole halo of stars in and around it which astounded me. That's what got me thinking about trying out this new hobby.

The Skywatcher I've been interested in has Objective Lens Diameter: 60mm which I'm assuming is the large lens at the front of the 'scope? The binoculars I have say 12x50mm so the 'scope should have another 10mm of light gathering surface? Sorry if I'm talking rubbish, just a little confused I guess.

[paul schofield]

Tape the 76mm and the Seben together and a set of binoculars would still be the better choice.

Paul.

[bendiddley]

If you find the night sky alluring, astronomy will grab you but you need to invest in something vaguely decent to stand a chance of it holding onto you. Easy to buy a cheap scope but also easy to get disappointed too. However if you really don't want to spend much then I would start at least with the heritage 130 dobsonian suggested earlier or if you can afford it the skywatcher 150p (6") dobsonian. Dobs are easy to use and you get good aperture for low cost. As others have also said get your self to your local astronomy society and attend a public observing session where you will be able to see what its like to look through quality scopes and get a feel for the hobby, I did that and it really helped me decide to give it a go. Once you've seen what its like you might be swayed to spend more. Just don't make the mistake of buying cheap poor quality and getting put off. I've got an 8" dobsonian (skywatcher 200p) and I am totally hooked on this hobby, it was my first scope too. I started off only wanting to spend £50 to £100 max but slowly learned from researching that I would be wise to spend more. At the end of the day you could always buy second hand and if you really decide you don't like it you can sell up and you've lost nothing. Good luck with your decision!

[Neil_F]

I think you will find that the word Seben is German for sh*t

I'm afraid to say that I haven't heard one good word said about Seben telescopes, big numbers and a low-ish price doesn't always mean a good scope.

Just my 2p worth.

[Lee M]

I actually "borrowed" some binoculars from my dad a while ago and go out into my garden to have a look at the moon when I can. I've even trained them on Jupiter once or twice, with Google Skymap pointing the way for me. They're Centon 12x50mm field 5.5° not sure if that's particularly powerful. The only problem with using them is the significant wobble when using them which ruins the view for me.

Great, gives you something to start with. If you've got wobble then check out the links in the binocular section for tips on how to hold them etc. Also things like using a broom handle as a support or if you've got a deckchair around sit back in that and support your elbows on the arms.

You'll be able to see plenty in them, you just need to know where to look.

I've got a link that I want to put in but it's on another PC so I'll post another reply in a while.

[cantab]

I actually "borrowed" some binoculars from my dad a while ago and go out into my garden to have a look at the moon when I can. I've even trained them on Jupiter once or twice, with Google Skymap pointing the way for me. They're Centon 12x50mm field 5.5° not sure if that's particularly powerful. The only problem with using them is the significant wobble when using them which ruins the view for me.

Three ways to cut down the wobbles (besides just "hold them steadier"). Get a lower magnification - 12x is a touch high for handholding, 7 or 10x are more popular. Stick 'em on a tripod or monopod. Or get image-stabilised binoculars, but they're way out of your budget. Bear in mind a cheap scope is also likely to suffer from the shakes at high magnification and if there's even a slight breeze.

[Lee M]

OK. For a beginner's guide of what to look at a lot of people will recommend Turn Left at Orion (TLaO). I've got it myself and I like making little notes & annotations in the book.

However, you're on a budget & best to put the money into a good scope. So: http://www.cambridge.org/features/turnleft/

I don't wish to do the authors out of cash for their hard work but it's been put up by the publisher! I hope in time you'll want a proper copy to scrawl all over like I do.

That's going to be a lot harder to work through than having the book but you'll find things in there flagged up for binocular users and where to find them.

First stops:

Pleides M45

Orion nebula M42

Beehive Cluster M44 in Cancer

M31 Andromeda galaxy

Double cluster NGC 957 & 869

They should all look great in your binoculars.

Just bear in mind there's virtually no difference in light gathering between the binoculars and the 60mm scope you're looking at. People are advising, rightly, to hold fire and get 130mm or 150mm if you can.

Lee

[Aenima]

Some great advice, especially that turn left at orion book, even the pdf version which I have, - its a very realistic book.

Many books and a lot of articles can bring disappointment by showing and describing mega-colourful and detailed celestial sights which conjure images of hubble style views, and even some planetarium/astronomy software and apps have digital images that are occasionally a little exaggerated. (the intro to big bang theory where the view zooms past and around objects is what people often imagine before looking through a real telescope - my mate can be credited with this exact analogy )

Anyhow, yeah the book is full of excellent guidelines for using a small - 130mm-/-200mm - telescope and has illustrations that are spot on in their scale and detail, as well as practical advice and relevant info.

The view of the moon in a 5 or 6 inch aperture scope is enough to sell you on the idea of owning a half decent moderate sized reflector......

Regards

Aenima

ps. seben may not be the best quality telescopes and dont enjoy the same reputation as skywatcher/celestron but there is one product that ive found to be no worse than the same price range alternatives - their 30£ laser collimator - it genuinely isnt that terrible!

However, GO WITH SKYWATCHER!

[66mikeg]

Best advice that I can give is to contact a local astronomy club and go along for a couple of meetings. Buying a 'scope is only the first step and amateur astronomers as a rule are only too willing to pass on advice on equipment and general methods. You will be able to cadge a view through a variety of telescopes and then make an informed choice from first hand experience.

[fruity]

Seems Amazon is doing a deal on the Celestron Astromaster 130EQ, usually £169 but it's down to £130 and is going under a lightning deal soon. It looks much better than the two cheaper ones I looked at originally.

[Simes]

Seems Amazon is doing a deal on the Celestron Astromaster 130EQ, usually £169 but it's down to £130 and is going under a lightning deal soon. It looks much better than the two cheaper ones I looked at originally.

I have one if those for sale at the moment. It's 3 months old and I want £100 plus delivery...

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