TAL-tastic! Another 100RS...

[TonyD]

Well done - been reading this post just now with interest.

Excellent write-up Planetesimal - you beat me to it. Will be adding my own thoughts soon.

Been out and about doing my own TAL shopping (as some of you no doubt know) but look forward to comparing details and first light reports.

Believe it or not I haven't yet first-lighted my 100RS (still busy gushing over the fantastic 100R which was the first one I unpacked)

Cheers

TonyD

[TonyD]

The more i play about with different refractors, the more i see just how good the Tal 100 rs really is

Just so nice to keep hearing these reports and affirmations

[TonyD]

I'm still fighting the urge to get a 100RS to go with my 100R. Just got to avoid reading RS first light reports....and gawd help me when Tony posts a comparison off his RS to his R!

Watch this space, heh heh heh

Getting a small group who will be running 100Rs side by side with 100RS's.

Now what could we call ourselves....

[nightfisher]

I still think the 100r and 100rs are the best 4" f10 achromats sub £400, my rs still surprises me

[TonyD]

Gawd help me. I'm BACK

And check out the sig below...............

[TonyD]

Never mind this time its the next I'm worried about....I have a picture in my head of 50 Sherpa's loaded up trying to board Easyjet flights to Norway! :grin:

Images like this I find inspiring!

[TonyD]

Double post by accident .... sorry

[John]

I still think the 100r and 100rs are the best 4" f10 achromats sub £400, my rs still surprises me

Does that take into account the Lyra Optics 102mm F/11 Jules or are you strictly sticking to F/10 ?

I reckon my TAL 100 was optically as good as the Vixen 102M F/9.8 that preceded it - which is a real compliment as the Vixen 102 achromats have an excellent reputation.

[nightfisher]

Does that take into account the Lyra Optics 102mm F/11 Jules or are you strictly sticking to F/10 ?

I reckon my TAL 100 was optically as good as the Vixen 102M F/9.8 that preceded it - which is a real compliment as the Vixen 102 achromats have an excellent reputation.

Yes John it takes the Lyra into account, remember the Lyra is £380 less finderscope and diagonal, so in real terms the Lyra becomes £430-470 ish when you add these 2 items, and if your buying a quality 4" like the Lyra, you wont want to add these 2 items from the "odds and sods" box. In march i am having a little get together with a few friends at a place in north wales, should be able to compare the Tal with the Lyra first hand, weather permitting

[John]

Yes John it takes the Lyra into account, remember the Lyra is £380 less finderscope and diagonal, so in real terms the Lyra becomes £430-470 ish when you add these 2 items, and if your buying a quality 4" like the Lyra, you wont want to add these 2 items from the "odds and sods" box. In march i am having a little get together with a few friends at a place in north wales, should be able to compare the Tal with the Lyra first hand, weather permitting

For completeness it would be really good if one of the chinese 102mm F10's was on hand too - something like the Omni 102 XLT for example ?:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/clearance/celestron-omni-xlt-102.html

Perhaps FLO would loan you one !

That would make a very interesting group test

[nightfisher]

I have tried the 102, Evostar along side my Tal, lets just say they are 2 very different scopes optically

[John]

I have tried the 102, Evostar along side my Tal, lets just say they are 2 very different scopes optically

I've tried some of the Evostars too - I'd say they vary quite a bit from mediocre to good.

The Omni though is supposed to have an aspheric objective lens so it should overcome the main issue with the chinese achromats which is spherical aberration.

Hey ho - enjoy your trip to North Wales and I hope the skies are dark for you

[nightfisher]

I have to admit, it would make a good test to try an omni, i seem to remember FLO were going to loan you a 120 to try in this manner, against an evo, shame it never happened, any how going off topic now

[Planetesimal]

I think for many this is a general problem with fracs; uncomfortable observing positions. As you mention, something like an extension pilar might help. I've also heard that purchasing an adjustable ironing chair is a great aid.

As you can see in the photo, a Telrad has been tied to the OTA with plastic zip ties and it worked fine. These ties are handy because you're not compromised by any degree of permanency. I also placed under the Telrad's baseplate two strips of denim, to cover the Telrad's own glue strips. These glue-strips were still protected by the plastic covering but I did find that a degree of 'gunk' from them oozed onto the OTA.

My first plan is to swap the Dec control to the other side of the mount when using the TAL, plus I've extended the tripod legs by about a foot. It's a bit more wobbly so I'll have to see if this works in practice. I suspect I'd be better off with an AZ4 anyway but I'm scared of abandoning the convenience of equatorial tracking...

I have a Telrad on my newt at the moment which I could swap over, so I'll just need to get hold of a new Telrad baseplate. I'm actually thinking of buying a 2" riser to make sure the reticle can be viewed clear of the EP.

On the other side is a 9x50 finder which is kept on place with only the one screw and a little patch of denim underneath the shoe. This acts not only as a protection to the OTA but gives a really firm support. No drilling needed and I have a 100% solid foundation.

This bit is interesting - I wonder if you could explain a little more! I have a skywatcher 9x50 RACI (looks just like the one in your picture), and it would be nice to be able to swap this over to the TAL when needed rather than shelling out for a new one. The TAL finder bracket is very different from the SW design and I can't currently see how I could attach it - I'm thinking a spare SW finder "shoe" will be needed as a starting point?

Ay, the Spanish have a kind of expression for this dilemma, 'cada uno con su problema' You guys are troubled by clouds, over here I'm troubled by chronic LP and so on. In a way they are similar disabilities, for one way or another they prevent us from seeing what we'd really like to be seeing and can be insidious roots towards frustration and anger.

I personally feel it is better to be a space-visitor, rather than a space-tourist. Folk go to a museum, for example, and will try to rush all the paintings, but at the end of the day, they only remember at best one or two of them and not that well either and the same analogy could be used when stargazing.

I will try to spend an entire evening, say, with just Jupiter and perhaps a double star or two. Or I will spend an evening with the Moon and an Open Cluster. Another night with just one constellation, hopping between the stars. Galaxies, Nebulae, Globs etc are just out of the question with the small 4" in a city. I will always try to sketch at least 2 sights and will go back and swot a little on what I have seen and missed. This, as sad as it may sound, for me, is a great night out.

Thanks Qualia, it's true that I'm still a space tourist at the moment, having only been observing for four months... I guess we all start out as tourists when we visit a new country: we want to see the sights! Once we get settled down we only revisit the areas we are fond of - the areas we get the most from. That's where I want to be once I've seen a full revolution of the sky through the seasons.

[Planetesimal]

Nicely put and I agree 100% with this approach

Time spent studying an object, whether deep sky or solar system, is almost always rewarded with more detail as your eye "tunes in" to the image that the scope is producing. It also enables you to capture those fleeting moments of really good seeing where your optics suddenly show, even momentarily, what they can really do

I'm always a bit worried when I see reports like "I managed a quick look at Jupiter but could not see much detail". Study the planet for an hour or more and then more will become visible, sometimes much more

Quite right John, astronomy is a compelling activity for a reason... Until recently, I thought the best I could get out of my newt on Jupiter was a blurry taupe pea with a few greyish strips, whizzing across the EP. With patience, I'm now able to identify the colour of the bands and see swirling detail, I can see festoons and barges and I've had a brilliant view of Io transitting the GRS. Now that I know what can be achieved with good conditions and a properly set up instrument, I can tell when something isn't quite right and do something about it! Most of all it comes down to the realisation that, in astronomy, the best results do not come "overnight"!

[Planetesimal]

Well done - been reading this post just now with interest.

Excellent write-up Planetesimal - you beat me to it. Will be adding my own thoughts soon.

Been out and about doing my own TAL shopping (as some of you no doubt know) but look forward to comparing details and first light reports.

Believe it or not I haven't yet first-lighted my 100RS (still busy gushing over the fantastic 100R which was the first one I unpacked)

Cheers

TonyD

I look forward to hearing your first light reports on the 100RS Tony, and the others too! After all, you are partly responsible for my new acquisition...

[Mike73]

I suspect I'd be better off with an AZ4 anyway but I'm scared of abandoning the convenience of equatorial tracking...

This is exactly how I feel at the moment. I'm lucky enough to have a motorised EQ5 and a SkyTee2 but one has to go..

Being a dob user the luxury of motorised tracking is simply amazing but the simplicity of a Alt/Azi mount really suits the way I use my Lyra.

I have been getting sharper and better views of Juipter with the SkyTee?! Maybe theres less vibration or maybe thats because of better seeing???

Gone a bit off topic here, sorry.

[Planetesimal]

This is exactly how I feel at the moment. I'm lucky enough to have a motorised EQ5 and a SkyTee2 but one has to go..

Being a dob user the luxury of motorised tracking is simply amazing but the simplicity of a Alt/Azi mount really suits the way I use my Lyra.

I have been getting sharper and better views of Juipter with the SkyTee?! Maybe theres less vibration or maybe thats because of better seeing???

Gone a bit off topic here, sorry.

Not to worry Mike - it's all refractor related chat so I'm interested!

[Qualia]

I wonder if you could explain a little more! I have a skywatcher 9x50 RACI (looks just like the one in your picture), and it would be nice to be able to swap this over to the TAL when needed rather than shelling out for a new one. The TAL finder bracket is very different from the SW design and I can't currently see how I could attach it - I'm thinking a spare SW finder "shoe" will be needed as a starting point?

Ay, the Tal bracket and screw holes are unique, so aren't suited to a standard Chinese fitting; some modification will be needed if one is changing the viewfinder.

If you can put up with a smaller field of view and an upside down image for starhopping, then it may not be worth your time or expense changing the viewfinder. The Tal's own is quite simply an excellent quality instrument, its crosshairs are well defined and stars are sharp across the field of view. However, in my own case, I needed to change the viewfinder simply because as the evening wore on and the brain began to slow, I kept making silly mistakes when starhopping. Also, the wider field of view is handy and itself gives splendid views of the moon and open clusters.

I hope the picture gives some idea of what I've done. The shoe finder is this one and the finder I use is this one. As you can see, only the one screw is used and the shoe is bedded upon a piece of cut denim which protects the OTA from scratches and provides a firmer support. To date, I haven't had any problem with this set up and from zenith to horizon, swivelling this way and that on both the AZ 4 and CG 5, the finder remains fixed and sturdy.

You might also be interested in checking out what Nightfisher has done to his own gem. Quite outstanding work, but something I just don't have the bottle to do. Nevertheless, if you decide the Tal is a keeper - which I imagine it should be - and you have a steady hand, then such a modification probably makes a lot more sense.

[Planetesimal]

If you can put up with a smaller field of view and an upside down image for starhopping, then it may not be worth your time or expense changing the viewfinder. The Tal's own is quite simply an excellent quality instrument, its crosshairs are well defined and stars are sharp across the field of view. However, in my own case, I needed to change the viewfinder simply because as the evening wore on and the brain began to slow, I kept making silly mistakes when starhopping. Also, the wider field of view is handy and itself gives splendid views of the moon and open clusters.

I hope the picture gives some idea of what I've done. The shoe finder is this one and the finder I use is this one. As you can see, only the one screw is used and the shoe is bedded upon a piece of cut denim which protects the OTA from scratches and provides a firmer support. To date, I haven't had any problem with this set up and from zenith to horizon, swivelling this way and that on both the AZ 4 and CG 5, the finder remains fixed and sturdy.

Thanks Qualia... I have the same RACI finder as you, and I guess I'm used to the convenience now. I really like the TAL finder, it's just that the right angle will make things a bit more comfortable and less contortionist! Anyway, I've ordered the spare finder shoe from FLO, but in the meantime could you try re-posting your picture? It shows as an "error" at the moment so I don't know what you did... I'm not ready to start drilling the OTA yet (nightfisher's looks brilliant), even though I do think the TAL is a keeper. I think I could handle flocking the dew shield though...

[nightfisher]

I drilled my Tal ota and fitted the skywatcher bracket, much as i like the tal finder, i nearly always use the 9x50 r/a on mine

[Planetesimal]

Qualia - your moniker spell corrects to quails!

Anyway I think it might be a firewall in work stopping me from seeing the photo - I can see it on my phone though. I can see what you did now, thanks. I couldn't quite picture it before but I figured you must have used on of the existing holes to attach the finder shoe and covered the other one up with the denim pad... I'll definitely try that before getting out the drill!

[Planetesimal]

Okay, I got the parts from FLO - super fast delivery again, I only placed the order yesterday afternoon!

So, using Qualia's non-drilling technique described above, I attached the finder shoe (now in white!) to the right-hand hole where the TAL finder bracket was originally attached. I used a rectangle of an old white towel folded in two and cut a hole in this so the screw could go through. Thankfully the SW screws are the same gauge as the TAL bracket screws.

I also received my spare telrad base and riser, which I've attached using cable ties for now. Here's some photos (slightly gratuitous, but I think the TAL is a thing of beauty! )

[nightfisher]

looking very nice, a fully loaded Tal 100 rs

[Seafury]

Hi lovely looking set up I just wondered if a piece of that anti slip mat that you get on a roll would be better uner the finder bracket, the towel will get wet with dew etc

regards Gordon