Commons Debate-Street Lighting in Residential Areas

[SteveNickolls]

Sad to admit but I was lucky enough to wathch part of the above debate earlier this evening (on the Parliamentary Channel) on street lighting in residential areas tabled by Andy Sawford MP for Corby. Stephen Hammond (Transport Minister) gave a good, clear account of the current position of local councils in turning off/dimming their local street lighting. The Minister showed a good awareness of the progress made by some councils and the national research into the subject. It was particularly reassuring to learn that the Government, while aware of the concerns darker streets have for many individulas (increased fear of crime and accidents), has rationally studied the issues and found that both such arguements against running schemes are factually wanting. This bodes well where lighting schemes are proposed as it helps strengthen the rational arguement for supporting the turn off of lighting. Any scheme must of course be sensitive to actual levels of crime/accidents in local areas.

Cheers,

Steve

[laser_jock99]

Watched some of it here:

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=12175

fast forward to 7:30

[Pig]

I think the biggest problem is dual carriage ways and major roads - im sure they are on for safety reasons and not crime.

The best lighting systems have movement detection and are brilliant - these also help reduce crime as they come on when a thief runs past them thus showing where they are.

They also work on roads as the lights come on in groups of three depending on the traffic direction.

It also solves the problem of light pollution and they do not require loads of maintenance.

[crashtestdummy]

lets hope this becomes a nationally roled out scheme rather than pick n mix at local level

[floppygoose]

The Northamptonshire authority is replacing it's street-lighting with a new 'lower energy' option, under a PFI scheme (at a cost of approx £130million!) We are told that the street lights will be using 40% less energy, and will suppposedly give a 'uniform white' light, as opposed to the patchy sort of orange we had previously. This is being done over a 5-year program, and the first streets where these will be introduced will be in Corby (Andy Sawford's constituency) In theory this should give an improvement from a light-pollution perspective, but in reality more people are simply installing additional lighting outside their own houses because the streets are now so dark.

Phil

[TheMightyKong]

In my area of north London the council have replaced the sodium vapour lights with new whiter street lamps. The result is now I can read outside at night without any aid :-(

[crashtestdummy]

i think the main problems are motorways where there's sets of lights every 50yds and the height of street lighting.if street lights were at 15 feet high and a downward shaded angle it would cut out about 80% of local skyglow.there needs to be regulations for outside lighting too so my damn neighbours cant have pointless unnecessary garden lights on all night!!!!

[JamesF]

i think the main problems are motorways where there's sets of lights every 50yds and the height of street lighting.if street lights were at 15 feet high and a downward shaded angle it would cut out about 80% of local skyglow.there needs to be regulations for outside lighting too so my damn neighbours cant have pointless unnecessary garden lights on all night!!!!

What's required is a really vulgar show of frivolous expenditure followed by comments to the neighbours along the lines of "Yes, well, I discovered the research shows that criminals prefer to target well-lit houses regardless of security lighting, so we've cut down all our lights to the minimum and bought this with the money we saved on electricity."

Never mind if it's stretching the truth just a little

James

[notaclue]

The only thing that gets me about lighting of streets is the EU ruling that all lights on roads need to be over a height so lorries can pass safely under them. To be honest, where I live we get the occasional 8 tonne truck but no 32 tonne. So it is silly to have these light which are over 5 metres tall when all you get are small vehicles passing by to the factory a road over.

I would welcome a turn off/dimming of street lights. Where my aunt lives in Scotland in winter in her area you can see all of Orion. Even the bow. Here? Nothing. Just the main group and that is it. Within 100 metres +/- 10 metres I have 2 lights. The glow from them makes my room look like summer. So annoying. So any turning off and reduction on main roads is a welcome. Why would I welcome it?

Firstly new cars now have a HUD/screen in car that sees in darkness. So you can get to see further than the beams of your headlights. Plus with electronics and such the cars can now brake quicker than a human. Also we have these lights that illuminate the entire road in not only white light but full beam also. And anyone out driving at night without headlights on will soon find out why the road gets dark. So if crime goes down at night for thieves "are scared of the dark", let them be scared. All we need to do is to change the idiots who run around like headless chickens clucking at whatever idiocy middle England jerks their knee at.

You know, I would welcome this as it would give me a good nights sleep without resorting to medication from the doctor.

[notaclue]

Watched some of it here:

http://www.parliamen...meetingId=12175

fast forward to 7:30

Can not watch it. Needs Silverlight from Microsoft.

[SteveNickolls]

Hi Guys, Thanks laser_jock99 for the link, I will watch it later tonight. Thanks to everyone for your 2p-worth, I think the more this is talked about the more we can help promote lighting changes (I much prefer turning off/dimming to the LED alternatives though).

Cheers All,

Steve

[jabberwocky]

Speaking as a truck driver I'm glad the EU makes sure lights are over a certain height, I wouldnt fancy driving down a road trying to see how high every single street light was.

everything below 16" 6 needs to have a height marker on it, much easier to have lights above this height than put a sign on them.

weight of a truck has little or no bearing on the height of it.

i have to say I'm not keen on these new white street lights, some are awful, small 'pools' of light in a sea of complete blackness, plus in wet conditions the light scatter is awful, and quite often you think there's a car about to come around a bend when infact its just a street light. They do however reduce light pollution.

[Carbon Brush]

There is a basic problem when lights are renewed, or upgraded.

The new brighter lights are usually planted in the same location as the old.

No thought seems to be given to the ability to use a different spacing.

The much brighter light, results in those left behind in the 'dark ages' asking when they will get an upgrade. The brighter lights result in more light cast up by reflections, despite better fitting design producing a better light cone.

A further problem is the light colour. Low pressure sodium and mercury can be filtered. High pressure sodium, led, etc cannot be filtered.

This (in my experience) presents more of a problem than the old 'wasteful' lights.

I like the idea of 'look what we bought with the electricity saved' on home lights.

Perhaps if councils were to say something along similar lines there would less opposition to switch off? Maybe offer a choice?

Perhaps....By turning off these lights we save enough money to run your library, otherwise it will close. The alternative is your your council tax would go up..... Just a thought.

[TheMightyKong]

Speaking as a truck driver I'm glad the EU makes sure lights are over a certain height, I wouldnt fancy driving down a road trying to see how high every single street light was.

everything below 16" 6 needs to have a height marker on it, much easier to have lights above this height than put a sign on them.

weight of a truck has little or no bearing on the height of it.

i have to say I'm not keen on these new white street lights, some are awful, small 'pools' of light in a sea of complete blackness, plus in wet conditions the light scatter is awful, and quite often you think there's a car about to come around a bend when infact its just a street light. They do however reduce light pollution.

What's your opinion as a truck driver on switching off motorway/A-road lighting after a certain time at night except at intersections and replacing with reflective cats eyes as lane markers?

[laser_jock99]

..... plus in wet conditions the light scatter is awful, and quite often you think there's a car about to come around a bend when infact its just a street light.

That's one thing I don't like about the new white lights. At least you knew the old orange street lights weren't a car coming the other way! Nowadays you can't tell what's what.

[J_M_Franklin]

Could I just point out that it is a total misconception to blame the EU for the height of Street lights in the UK. The height in the UK has been set by the speed of the road for years, it is nothing to do with the height of the vehicles that may use it, this is why domestic roads have lower lights than roads with higher speeds..

I really do wish people would bash the EU for things they are responsible for an not what we would want to blame them for, it's ruddy tedious.

As for street lights, they should light walkways not roads, that is why vehicles have lights, out of town there is no need for the roads to be illuminated unless there is a hazard that requires illumination for safety..it's a waste of energy and simply creates pollution.

[notaclue]

I must live at Brands Hatch as the lights here are the same on the main roads around the city.