Vesta and Ceres - what should I see?

[Moonshane]

Never tried for these before but in conjunction with Jupiter and comet Linear around Taurus and Auriga they seem worth trying for. I have a decent map http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/highlights/Ceres-and-Vesta-July-2013-148149915.html but is it a case of looking for the 'star' of the correct magnitude that's missing off my map? Or do they look different to stars like planets (i.e. forming a defined disc with magnification?).

[keeplookingup]

I haven't seen them in my new scope yet but was watching them for awhile with some binos and they merely looked like stars to me but with maps one can see their movement from night to night. worth seeing!

[Double Kick Drum]

The six asteroids I have managed to date can only be identified by movement / maps. They all appeared like white stars.

I saw 4 - Vesta the other day and at magnitude 6.9 in the same FOV as NGC 1647, It should be reasonably easy to identify. 1 - Ceres is only about a half a magnitude feinter and is also not too big a challenge.

If you fancy more of a challenge, 9 - Metis is also well positioned and is currently of magnitude 8.6.

Happy hunting!

[keeplookingup]

those all sound like great fun!

[cantab]

The name's a hint - asteroid means star-like

[Moonshane]

touche!

[foundaplanet]

I used stellarium to help me find these two. It's not bang on but there is enough information to be able to figure it out. Ceres is orange in colour.

Cartes du Ciel is better for asteroids in general.

[Double Kick Drum]

Anyone else seen orange colour in Ceres?

I've not managed any colour in the six asteroids i've spotted and my eyes usually pick colour up reasonably well. That said, Ceres is around magnitude 7 and high in the sky so if there was ever an opportunity....

[Mr Q]

I have never tried for one but since some do get very close to the Earth, would these show some structure or shape? If so, what size objective would be needed to detect any shape?

[Ags]

The ones that get close to earth are very small (fortunately) so there is no visible shape. The closest you can get to observing structure is measuring changes in brightness as the asteroid rotates.

[Stu]

I think you were pretty much bang on with your initial description Shane. It's a bit like star hopping but you play 'find the extra star', the one that's not on your map.

I managed Vesta a little while back with my binoculars, just matched the star fields, a bit of to-ing and fro-ing referring back to the chart and it became clear which one was Vesta. I checked back a few days later ( i.e. next time it was clear!) and it had moved position so I was certain I had the right one.

Need to try Ceres next, maybe tonight as it is looking ok out there.

Happy hunting!

Stu

[Stu]

Just got Ceres quickly with the binos, relatively easy to find. Was clearly a little dimmer than Vesta. Nice to have found both.

Stu

[Double Kick Drum]

I think you were pretty much bang on with your initial description Shane. It's a bit like star hopping but you play 'find the extra star', the one that's not on your map.

I managed Vesta a little while back with my binoculars, just matched the star fields, a bit of to-ing and fro-ing referring back to the chart and it became clear which one was Vesta. I checked back a few days later ( i.e. next time it was clear!) and it had moved position so I was certain I had the right one.

Need to try Ceres next, maybe tonight as it is looking ok out there.

Happy hunting!

Stu

Nice work.

I'd say Vesta is easy in a scope but binoculars.... much harder.

[Stu]

It is forming a kind of right angled triangle with a mag 6.5 star marked SZ tau in sky safari so I managed to pin it down ok. SZ appears more orange than Vesta to my eye, Vesta being just white.

The stabilisation, and x15 on the binos helps. Haven't seen either through the scope, I wonder if it might almost be more difficult because of the reversed image and more stars in the fov. Will give it a go when I get the chance.

Btw, limiting mag through the binos was around 8.8 or even 9.0 tonight from here so they were both clearly visible.

Stu

[Moonshane]

I agree with your observation and description re Vesta Stu, so my first asteroid! I was going to have another look tomorrow hopefully to compare my pencil points and see which one moved!

the clouds are defeating me with regard to Ceres at the minute but will try again shortly. not seen hide nor hair of Comet Linear with the 6" but will keep looking if it ever clears a little.

[Stu]

Nice one Shane. I'd never even thought of trying for these until last week. Not much to look at but very interesting to see, and watch move night to night.

Ceres is dimmer but probably slightly easier because it is more on its own. I started at Elnath, found 118 Tau A, then HD35480, Ceres is in a straight line ahead.

Hope the cloud shifts for you

Stu

[EntropyStar]

Anyone else seen orange colour in Ceres?

I've not managed any colour in the six asteroids i've spotted and my eyes usually pick colour up reasonably well. That said, Ceres is around magnitude 7 and high in the sky so if there was ever an opportunity....

Yes there's defo a yellow/orange hue to Ceres which I picked up, more noticeable than Vesta. I'm glad someone else has noted it, the colour was easier to pick out with lower powered EP#s as the comparison with the surrounding star field made it 'pop' out as the odd one out.

I'd recommend also give Metis a go too, that one isn't too hard to pick out.

I agree re the comments on Stellarium, it's accurate enough to get you in the general area but I've often found it slightly off, best way is (as with all asteroids) to do a few sketches over a the course of a week and then you'll defo know you've nailed it.

[EntropyStar]

I forgot to add a few tips I've picked up from spending a lot of this winter asteroid hunting...

I starhop to everything I view, with some of the fainter asteroids (ie 21 Lutetia) using the 'angle measure' tool on Stellarium really helps. First of all select the closest naked eye reference star, then draw a line using the angle measure tool from that star directly to the asteroid. Then using the 'ocular' plugin I 'walk' along the line from my reference star to the object, double checking the view in the ocular plugin with the live view through the scope. The trickiest bit is making sure you've got your ocular plugin set up correctly so the image is displayed the right way up. I pretty much always use the widest EP possible and then ramp up the magnification when I've got the object.

I use this technique for anything faint and it's never let me down!

[Double Kick Drum]

Yes there's defo a yellow/orange hue to Ceres which I picked up, more noticeable than Vesta. I'm glad someone else has noted it, the colour was easier to pick out with lower powered EP#s as the comparison with the surrounding star field made it 'pop' out as the odd one out.

I'd recommend also give Metis a go too, that one isn't too hard to pick out.

I agree re the comments on Stellarium, it's accurate enough to get you in the general area but I've often found it slightly off, best way is (as with all asteroids) to do a few sketches over a the course of a week and then you'll defo know you've nailed it.

Interesting. I'll have to go back to Ceres and see if I can tease any colour out.

Metis wasn't too difficult to find (though I have only had one opportunity to observe). Juno and Pallas are better placed next year. Astraea (which I failed to ID when in Leo last year) and Iris will have to wait longer.

Agree that Stellarium and CdC are sometimes slightly out but usually only fractions.

Clear skies.

[EntropyStar]

Interesting. I'll have to go back to Ceres and see if I can tease any colour out.

Metis wasn't too difficult to find (though I have only had one opportunity to observe). Juno and Pallas are better placed next year. Astraea (which I failed to ID when in Leo last year) and Iris will have to wait longer.

Agree that Stellarium and CdC are sometimes slightly out but usually only fractions.

Clear skies.

I haven't used CdC very much at all really, how useful do you find it for Asteroid hunting? I think if memory serves me right the version of CdC I've got doesn't have a particularily rich star catalogue (is there an option to download more?) and as such I prefer Stellarium. I struggle with limited amounts of reference stars in CdC. How far out do you find Stellarium? The object 99/100 is always with in the fov but is invaribly in a different place to what Stellarium reports. I've updated the MPC data but it seems the last feed it takes is the 2011 MPC orbital elements data, are there any newer data feeds?

[Stu]

Just as a comment along similar lines, I found Sky Safari + to be very accurate, and with plenty of reference stars around the correct magnitude, and fainter, to use for star hopping/pattern matching. It is nice to be able to tune the view to include the same magnitude stars which are visible, in my case through binos.

Stu

[EntropyStar]

Just as a comment along similar lines, I found Sky Safari + to be very accurate, and with plenty of reference stars around the correct magnitude, and fainter, to use for star hopping/pattern matching. It is nice to be able to tune the view to include the same magnitude stars which are visible, in my case through binos.

Stu

Thanks for the info,

How do you find Sky Safari in comparison to a pc based plantetarium programme? looking at some of the reviews on Google Play and they seem to suggest it's a little unstable and it's very pricey for an app (£9.99 for the + version and £24.99!!! for the 'full'). I take my laptop out when observing and currently struggling to justify spending that on an app. Are there any specs you can link us too that show how many stars in the database etc, I suspect it's not as richly populated on the + version as a dedicated planetarium. If I defo 'know' it's better I'm far more likely to splash out on it

Regards

[Double Kick Drum]

I haven't used CdC very much at all really, how useful do you find it for Asteroid hunting? I think if memory serves me right the version of CdC I've got doesn't have a particularily rich star catalogue (is there an option to download more?) and as such I prefer Stellarium. I struggle with limited amounts of reference stars in CdC. How far out do you find Stellarium? The object 99/100 is always with in the fov but is invaribly in a different place to what Stellarium reports. I've updated the MPC data but it seems the last feed it takes is the 2011 MPC orbital elements data, are there any newer data feeds?

CdC includes stars down to just beyond magnitude 12, which for the asteroids numbered one to twenty is more than adequate as they are all over a magnitude brighter at opposition.

It is true that Stellarium includes feinter stars but I prefer the functionality of CdC as a working tool. Where I run into difficulties, I refer to Stellarium for an alternative view. This has only really been needed for Asteroids, where CdC is slightly lacking IMO (as well as yours).

I am no expert on this as I have only successfully located six asteroids to date; 1 - Ceres, 4 - Vesta, 6 - Hebe, 9 - Metis, 12 - Victoria and 15 - Eunomia. I am working on a target list for the next year or two as other asteroids have oppositions more favouarbly placed in the sky. I will probably post to this forum as others may find useful in planning.

In terms of accuracy, there is not much between them. The use of them together, however, pretty much negates any inaccuracies (at least to the level that I am observing).

[EntropyStar]

Thanks for the opinions etc, always good to read…

I think in reference to CdC I may not be using it correctly as everyone else seems to really rate it, in my experience I find it looks very outdated and is a clumsy application to get around. I wonder if I’m using a really old version or I haven’t updated it with full star catalogues. A lot of the stargazers I pay attention to all advocate the usage of CdC so I must be missing a trick somewhere.

I’ll give the basic Sky Safari a whirl and see how I get on before committing to purchasing the full version.

A target Asteroid list would be very useful and I’m sure it’d gain a lot of attention. I’ve searched myself a few times across SGL but it seems asteroid hunting is one of the more niche pursuits. I tried to create one to fit into the ‘Starlog’ app but was having problems with it importing the data correctly.

[EntropyStar]

I had a look again last night at Vesta and Ceres and I'd be inclined to say I noticed more a defined yellow/golden hue from Vesta than Ceres. They both have a little colour but I think Vesta stands out more as it has more stars immediately next to it for comparison.