Good Value Explore Scientific Range

[Damo636]

A member on Cloudy Nights has posted a link to this outlet in Europe & I thought I'd highlight it on SGL also......

http://www.optical-systems.com/explore-scientific-m-343.html

With the current €-£ exchange rate, the entire range is amazing value. For example, the 30mm 82° can be had for £212 or there abouts inc delivery!

[Naemeth]

A member on Cloudy Nights has posted a link to this outlet in Europe & I thought I'd highlight it on SGL also......

http://www.optical-s...ific-m-343.html

With the current €-£ exchange rate, the entire range is amazing value. For example, the 30mm 82° can be had for £212 or there abouts inc delivery!

How does that compare to importing directly from the states?

[John]

They are in Europe so no import tax to pay, assuming it's been paid locally

[alan potts]

Nice one.

I had this site on my bookmarks before I had a crash. I am sure it was the Bresser home page a few years back. Very interesting that the short UWA are as cheap as the SWA 16mm. I also see the first shot of the 25mm 100 degree eyepiece, thats not as expensive as I thought it was going to be, I might well get one.

Alan.

[Damo636]

Nice one.

I had this site on my bookmarks before I had a crash. I am sure it was the Bresser home page a few years back. Very interesting that the short UWA are as cheap as the SWA 16mm. I also see the first shot of the 25mm 100 degree eyepiece, thats not as expensive as I thought it was going to be, I might well get one.

Alan.

Alan

There was a lot of speculation when the 25mm 100° was first announced that the cost and weight would prove prohibitive. At €599 (£480 approx) it's a whopping £240 cheaper than a 21 Ethos!! I make the weight approx 130 grams heavier than the 21 Ethos, so yes, it's heavy, but not as heavy as some had thought it might be! I for one am looking forward to reading reviews on this eyepiece. Televue stated that they couldn't go any longer than the 21 Ethos without making certain optical compromises, so it'll be interesting to see how, "if" ES managed to get around it!

[John]

..... Televue stated that they couldn't go any longer than the 21 Ethos without making certain optical compromises, so it'll be interesting to see how, "if" ES managed to get around it!.....

Yes, that will be very interesting

What we need is a review from someone with no axe to grind on either side.

[russ.will]

How does that compare to importing directly from the states?

US 25mm ES100. $599+$30 shipping = £390.40. Add 4% import duty, 20% VAT and £8 Post office handing charge = £495.22.

EU 25mm ES100. €599+€18 shipping = £505.45.

UK 25mm ES100. NA (£600+ ?)

US 24mm ES82. $199+$30 shipping = £142.13. Add duty, VAT and handling £185.38

EU 24mm ES82. €159 + €18 shipping = £144.77

UK 24mm ES82. £262

US 11mm ES82. $99+$15 shipping = £70.75. Add duty, VAT and handling £96.30.

EU 11mm ES82. €135 + €18 = £125.87

UK 11mm ES82. £157.

From that selection, it makes it clear that it's worth checking the price in both The States and Europe. If there's nothing in it, I'd get it from The States because it might slip through customs without attracting fees and save you a whole lot more.

Russell

[russ.will]

What we need is a review from someone with no axe to grind on either side.

To prove one is better than the other? Or just offering a different set of compromises, which seems more likely.

This one was quite interesting though.

Russell

[Dunkster]

Bookmarked - thanks Damo!

ES82 30mm works out about the same as I paid plus taxes (although I consider myself very lucky), so that's pretty decent.

My opinion is not whether the 25/100 is better than Ethos, just whether it is a good EP in its own right.

[John]

To prove one is better than the other? Or just offering a different set of compromises, which seems more likely.

This one was quite interesting though.

Russell

I've seen that review Russell. The x-rays caused a stir at the time.

No, I just meant that the reviewer would look in an unbiased way at the subject. Perhaps thats a bit far fetched though.

What did you mean by " a different set of compromises" by the way ?

Compliments of the season to you

[russ.will]

And to you and yours Sir! :;

By compromise, I mean that neither are cost-no-object eyepieces, so trades and balances must be present in each. We're not talking Nikon or Zeiss West money here, after all.

What is interesting, is that ES seem to be shaking off the image of a cloner and pushing some boundaries of their own, more so than TV of late.

For instance, it may be true that you can't make a 120deg FOV, that is up to Uncle Al's edge sharpness standards, in an F4 Newt. But this kind of leaves people with slower Newts, fracs and even slower SCTs, hamstrung for mid/high end choice, by a problem they don't suffer from.

Now, they have an alternative set of compromises to choose from and that must be good for all of us.

Russell

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD using chubby fingers. Sorry.

[John]

.....What is interesting, is that ES seem to be shaking off the image of a cloner and pushing some boundaries of their own, more so than TV of late.....

Yes, good for ES for entering some new territory

[alan potts]

John and Russell,

If someone reviews one and say it's good I may well buy it. It will look a bit odd in my cabinet though. I have to say it is a fair point that Russell makes re the F4 sharpness, I have 5 scopes and not one is below F 5.2 which I guess is slow by way of comparision.

Yes I have a pile of TV's and scopes at F 5.2, F6, F7, F9, and F 10 but there is something nice about owning what is looked upon as being about as good as it gets. However if the 25mm Ex Sc is as good as, say the 21mm Ethos in a slow scope I would be silly not to look at one.

I do see differences in Meade UWA, the 5.5mm for example and like Televue eyepieces (6mm Delos) in even my faster scopes. I have been working hard in the sub zero temperatures here to try and make a sort of a review for the site and a bit of a head to head. The differences are there but not as big as one would think. If I had an F 4 Dob then it may well be different story and the edge sharpness may well be a greater issue.

Doing this changing eyepieces every few minutes is not as easy as you think at minus 10. Then you just want to double check something and it's all change again. I don't know how many times I nearly dropped one.

I hope to write it tomorrow if my son will let me.

Happy New year to all,

Alan.

[russ.will]

Alan, you have my sympathy.

In my other second life, I review hi-fi for a large website. I continually get questions about how A fares against B. The correspondent normally assumes you have nothing better to do with your life, other than satisfy their unique purchase conundrum. Further more, they tend to forget that subtle differences are best revealed over weeks, rather than the minutes of an A/B comparison. Over the course of a week, the norm gets re-set and what sounded weird at first, becomes normal with increased exposure.

This latter point is particularly pertinent. Is one eyepiece warmer, or the other cooler? Is the colour contrast within one view, more important than the absolute colour accuracy? What is accurate? Does accuracy matter over personal preference?

I strive, in terms of my audio reviews, to avoid objective statements of personal preference, because they help nobody. I try to give subjective description of what a speaker does, or doesn't do well and let the reader figure out if it's one they want to audition. This is important because I'm stating MY impressions in MY room and in speaker terms, the room contributes 50% of what you hear.

I see a huge parallel with this latter point in telescope reviews. The eyepiece's 'room' is the telescope and yet I see huge amounts of 'reviews' that barely reference this fact.

For instance, is there any worth in comment on an EP's colour correction in a refractor? As the EP's colour balance is a result of it's coatings, then surely the same applies to the coatings of the refractor it's used in? I'd suggest that any review making colour judgements through a refractor is dubious - I read a review of a Pentax XL, TV Radian and a TV Nagler T1 used in a TV102 and a Pronto. The borrowed Pentax was described as warmer. Great, if you assume that the entire image chain the reviewer was used to, from prolonged use, was accurate, rather than the TV version of the universe; ie, he wasn't used to a 'cool' view.

I say, good luck to anybody doing a comparison between EP ranges, because the variables upstream are enormous and please makes sure you state what all of the variables are.

Russell

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD using chubby fingers. Sorry.

[Zaphod360]

US 25mm ES100. $599+$30 shipping = £390.40. Add 4% import duty, 20% VAT and £8 Post office handing charge = £495.22.

EU 25mm ES100. €599+€18 shipping = £505.45.

UK 25mm ES100. NA (£600+ ?)

US 24mm ES82. $199+$30 shipping = £142.13. Add duty, VAT and handling £185.38

EU 24mm ES82. €159 + €18 shipping = £144.77

UK 24mm ES82. £262

US 11mm ES82. $99+$15 shipping = £70.75. Add duty, VAT and handling £96.30.

EU 11mm ES82. €135 + €18 = £125.87

UK 11mm ES82. £157.

From that selection, it makes it clear that it's worth checking the price in both The States and Europe. If there's nothing in it, I'd get it from The States because it might slip through customs without attracting fees and save you a whole lot more.

Russell

I think you put the price for the ES68 in instead of the ES82 on the EU 24mm eyepiece (I'm in the market for one and I've been frantically trying to get the best price).

The price for an EU 24mm ES82 is €229 + €18 shipping =£202, which is still a lot better than £262 UK price!

[Astro_Baby]

Couldnt agree more and its precisely why I shy away from advising people on kit and eyepieces especially. Theres so many factors in an image train and the eyepiece is only one factor. The scopes optics will play a larger part on aspects like color and coma.

The 'ultimate' eyepiece is only ever going to be as good as the scope its in. On top of all that is the sky condition, seldom great in the UK and the observers eyeballs and preference. A great deal of reviews ramble on about stuff being sharp to the edge to the exclusion of other factors, some people with slower scopes wont care, some of us have tracking mounts and we dont care either because the object will stay in the center.

Eyepieces are a very personal thing and different people are more pr less senstive to different aspects, some people dont like pincushioning, some are allergic to edge errors.

Radians get a good press, I hated the one I tried. Disliked its brownish, muddy, colourisation and found it uncomfy.

I think your spot on with your views that theres a sort of acclimitisation process. Theres only two eyepieces I have liked from the off, a few that I have liked at the start and then found I am not keen on them and the rest I have grown into.

I used to be a hifi fan at one time and I find it amusing that after years of people being pushed into massive performance defined in terms of frequency response and dynamic bandwidth most of us are now listening to MP3s played through rather simplistic systems....I dont hear many people complaining about lack of stereo seperation, compression etc.

As regards TV and ES I am quite happy for them to clone away to their hearts content. I could never justify a Nagler in 31mm but an ES clone that can perform to close on for a fraction of the price is good news to me and plenty of others who would thank ES for bringing high quality glass to market at a price we are happy go pay.

I'd not be surpised if in 10 years ES are the number one player in eyepiece glass.

[Dunkster]

So I was thinking about upgrading my surround sound system, looks like I've come to the right place

(Just kidding )

The ES82 30mm works surprisingly well in my f/10 scopes, but that's all I have to try. Of course, the experience is different in the C11HD from the C8, but I've only used it a handful of times but I do like what I see. Over time I hope to be able to quantify further why. Still, I paid a little over £170 for mine and I'm keeping it for now

I'd like to try the 25/100 and 9/120 but not enough to put my hands in my pocket. Now if they did a 40mm 82 degree, that might be a different story Again, without accurately quantifying why, I get along with all the ES82 I have, and really enjoy the views, but the 11 probably gets the most use (as it is a nice useful mag for the C8)

[alan potts]

As much as I have a collection of TeleVue eyepieces I still have a Meade 24mm UWA and a 30mm UWA, so I am not totally bonkers, just slightly.

Happy New year all, I love this site.

Alan.

[John]

I bought my Tele Vues before ES had really broken into the market. If I was buying the same eyepiece types again, given my scopes, ES would be a very strong contender, given their price / performance ratio compared to Tele Vue's.

I bought my TV's used though and they cost a fair bit less than the ES equivalents do new now so I'd be crazy to sell my TV's and then have to pay a little more for something else, even if it is 99% as good.

I agree that ES could well be the big player of the future in wide / ultra wide / hyper wide eyepieces. It's going to be difficult to recommend that someone pays nearly 40% (based on UK prices) more for a smidgen of additional performance unless price really is no object to them.

[Dunkster]

As much as I have a collection of TeleVue eyepieces I still have a Meade 24mm UWA and a 30mm UWA, so I am not totally bonkers, just slightly.

Struggling to see what's bonkers about that, sounds like a nice collection to me

[alan potts]

Dunk,

I must be a bit nuts. I mean I know what a range of eyepieces should be, mine always seem to get out of hand. I think a lot of it comes from seeing something S/H and I can't resist a bargin.

At this moment I have the following. Radians 4mm,& 5mm. Naglers 7mm 9mm 11mm 12mm 16mm & 20mm (awaiting 26mm) Delos 4.5mm 6mm and 10mm. Ethos 8mm 13mm & 17mm Plossl 55mm and to conclude the TV Panoptic 24mm 35mm and 41mm

I also have Meade UWA 5.5mm 14mm 24mm and 30mm and a Pentax 14mm XW. Now if that is not a bit bonkers I don't know what is. I do have two scopes out many times and I use some of these eyepieces in finders at the same time. The other thing is I can rarely sell them here and for me to sell in the UK cost me 25 quid from the sale unless I am flying over anyway, so I just keep them. I bought a lovely case by Geoptik for eyepieces this week only trouble is I need another two.

You can't take it with you, Alan.

PS I am now looking at either a 3.5 Delos or Nagler to finish off

[Dunkster]

I think it's called obsessive compulsive disorder you are compelled to buy more TV EPs to extinguish the anxiety of not having all those you could dream of

Agree 100% though, money ain't no good where we end up!

[alan potts]

Dunk,

I am sure if I went to the Doctors here they would have a tablet to give me that will cure the problem. The odd thing is I only ever go out with a few eyepieces in my pockets mainly. I know what I want before I go and stick to it, they all get used believe it or not.

I am going to see if I can grab an hour or so the sky is just clearing from the East.

Take care,

alan.

[garethmob]

just a question guys on the talk of the ES range of eyepeices, how would they preform on say a F6 megrez 72 compared to a vixen NPL?

i know its going to be like comparing oranges and cucumbers but limiting it to 1.25mm would there be any difference. i would say a 11mm, 20ishmm and around 30ish mm

[Damo636]

Jeez Alan, that's quite a haul of eps I currently have six but might shed one in the near future. With the exception of the 31mm, I get to use all the others most nights.

I used the "you can't take it with you" line on the wife recently, she replied, "you don't have it to begin with" I guess my big bins will have to wait a while longer