EQMod Gamepad - which one do you use?

[kirkster501]

I am having issues with a MS force feedback gamepad - seems to have a mind of its own and when I stop slewing on the pad it continues for a while and overshoots.

Something much simpler me thinks. Any ideas? What about just a simple two axis Joystick - a good old Atari vintage one?

Rgds, Steve

[Black Knight]

I use a wireless Xbox 360 controller. It's OK for the most part, but as any 360 gamer will tell you, the D-Pad sucks so slewing can be a bit of an imprecise science!

[Steve 1962]

I've used a Logitech Rumble Pad 2 for several years now without problem - thoroughly recommended!

[Velvet]

I use X box controller (not wireless)

Velvet

[thunderchild]

I use the x box wireless with no problems

[r3i]

I just bought a cheap Saitek wireless gamepad off ebay - it has worked fine.

[kirkster501]

Ok guys thanks. Wonder why I am having issues then.....? (rhetorical question).

OK, maybe need to look into things then since MS force-feedback gamepad (wired) is almost the same thing as the Xbox you guys are using. Do you guys have the force-feedback version? Maybe that is activating in some way, even a tiny bit and causing the run on.... Did you guys running this successfully just plug in, install the MSOFT drivers and go? Did you install the EQmod PAD software?

[chrisshillito]

Did you install the EQmod PAD software?

If you are refering to ASCOMPAD then that isn ot needed if you have a skywatcher EQ mount as EQASCOM provides its own integrated gamepad interface. Only use ASCOMPAD if you want to achieve gamepad control of your focuser and filter wheel or for mount control of non EQASCOM compatible mounts.

Chris.

[Stephen]

XBox wired

[Black Knight]

Ok guys thanks. Wonder why I am having issues then.....? (rhetorical question).

OK, maybe need to look into things then since MS force-feedback gamepad (wired) is almost the same thing as the Xbox you guys are using. Do you guys have the force-feedback version?

The Xbox 360 controller doesn't use force feedback as such, it uses rumble. But no, I've never had a problem with that side of things.

[sloz1664]

Wireless Logitech Rumble Pad 2. Not let me down, but can drain batteries if you keep them in the controller.

cheers

Steve

[Parus major]

Try buying a Rumblepad 2 these days, though. The model was discontinued two years ago, you'll be looking at a few quid.

There's nothing special about the logitech, it's a "Windows game pad", these days any wireless or even wired controller is the same.

I'm using an xbox controller, mainly because I've got three. You can pair a PS3 controller to your laptop via bluetooth easily enough so that one's a goer as well.

[Parus major]

Btw, if you want to be totally dogmatic about it and it MUST be the rumblepad2 then the new model is called the F710 - the same unit but with (wait for it) xbox controller settings and buttons.

[ashworthacca]

I've just received a Saitek P380 Dual Analogue wired gamepad from ebay. Set it up with EQMOD and assisgned all the buttons. Not used it outside but connected to the mount it seems to work perfectly.

[IanL]

I use a wireless 360 too. You can use either the D-Pad or the left analogue stick to slew. Either way I find them a bit imprecise; the D-Pad is awful and you either cannot get an axis to activate at all or you end up activating two and going diagonally. It is just badly designed, which is unusual for a Microsoft peripheral which are normally better than most things on the market.

The analogue stick is a bit better but still not that great; I find I have to push it to the edge in the appropriate direction and then rotate it around the outside of the "ring" to find where it will register when it starts slewing.

If you use the EQMOD gamepad set-up dialog, the analogue read-out numbers seem to respond perfectly well with big and obvious number changes when you push the stick in different directions. When using in anger however, the scope is very slow to respond and my gut feeling (unsubstantiated to be fair!) is that the gamepad code in EQMOD is a bit flaky. It only seems to respond when you hit (or are close to) the absolute maximum or minimum value on any given axis. Maybe I will try an experiment and deliberately 'undercalibrate' the stick by only pushing it to half-way or 2/3rds in each direction and see if that helps.

It is also worth bearing in mind that if you set a high slew rate that the scope will not just 'stop' when you release the stick/button. It slows down fairly predictably and stops, but it will definitely overshoot if you only release when you hit your target. I think this is by design, as I can' imagine the small motor gears that drive the worms would fare too well if you have a heavy load on the mount and the motor just went from full speed to dead stop, all that momentum would likely start to damage/strip the gears in fairly short order.

The trick is to make sure you switch to lower slewing rates when you get closer to your target. I map the two triggers on the front of the controller to switch up and down to between the preset rates. You should also adjust the preset rates to be useful for your mount/focal length combination; no point in having rates that result in no visible movement of the target or cause it to shoot out of the frame in a fraction of a second.

Someone on the EQMOD group did ask the authors if they could write it so the position of the analogue controllers affected the slewing speed automatically. This seems obvious to me, i.e. push the analogue stick a bit for low speed and futher for higher speeds. Unfortunately the answer was a resounding 'Why would anyone want to do that?' from the authors. Perhaps half an hour using an analogue controller to play a driving game or flight sim would make it obvious to them why, but there you go. (Not whingeing, very grateful for such fantastic free software that has made many of our lives so much better by the way ).

[chrisshillito]

I apologise if my responses on the EQMOD group have come across as 'why would anyone want to do that'. I usually try to give better informed responses than that. Some careful thought has gone into the gamepad control and proportion speed control via the joystick has been seriously considered (and yes I do play games too). The reasons for not going the proportional route are as follows:

1. When carefully positioning a mount you really don't want the mount lurching off at full speed because you just happen to briefly over correct or slip on the joystick. Loosing momentary control of your virtual car is generally much less disorientating than correcting for a scope lurch! Ultimately with a mount precision of movement is everything - anything that might compromise that is bad.

2. The range of speeds we can make the mount slew at is vast - the deflection on the joystick is small, particularly as a deadzone is required around the centre position. A proportional joystick is thefore likely to be very sensitive - not something you want to combine with cold thumbs .

3. Most folks only require a very limited number of slew speeds so proportional control that offers a wide range is speeds doesn't provide any real advantage. Realistically you are either centering something in an eyepiece or moving full tilt.

4. Some slew rates are very, very noisy due to resonance from the stepper drive (and the very effective sound box the is the motor housing) - by using preset rates you can ensure these are avoided.

Chris.

[Parus major]

I have to say, as a lifelong game player and analogue stick user since Nights on the Saturn, having the slew speed being analogue as well would blow my mind.

[Ant]

I use a generic PS3 controller.

The D pad covers the directions (obviously), and I have set the triggers to raise and lower the preset speed. I can then make large course movement and then very subtle ones without returning to the laptop.

Only once have I watched in horror as the scope sped off in some random direction, because I had put my jumper on the wireless controller... Won't be doing that again lol

Ant

[IanL]

I apologise if my responses on the EQMOD group have come across as 'why would anyone want to do that'. I usually try to give better informed responses than that. Some careful thought has gone into the gamepad control and proportion speed control via the joystick has been seriously considered (and yes I do play games too). The reasons for not going the proportional route are as follows:

1. When carefully positioning a mount you really don't want the mount lurching off at full speed because you just happen to briefly over correct or slip on the joystick. Loosing momentary control of your virtual car is generally much less disorientating than correcting for a scope lurch! Ultimately with a mount precision of movement is everything - anything that might compromise that is bad.

2. The range of speeds we can make the mount slew at is vast - the deflection on the joystick is small, particularly as a deadzone is required around the centre position. A proportional joystick is thefore likely to be very sensitive - not something you want to combine with cold thumbs .

3. Most folks only require a very limited number of slew speeds so proportional control that offers a wide range is speeds doesn't provide any real advantage. Realistically you are either centering something in an eyepiece or moving full tilt.

4. Some slew rates are very, very noisy due to resonance from the stepper drive (and the very effective sound box the is the motor housing) - by using preset rates you can ensure these are avoided.

Chris.

Chris,

Thanks for the detailed explanation of the complications involved. I am guilty of not explaining myself clearly enough as well. I hadn't envisaged a completely proportional control system, as you say the analogue sticks on gamepads are small and fine control might be difficult with a fully proportional system. What I had envisaged was:

- Only using whatever preset rates were defined in the EQMOD control panel; this overcomes the problem of noise/resonance I guess. My mount is pretty noisy anyway but being reasonably far away from the neighbours it is not an issue.

- Having maybe two zones (or more); maybe from the end of the deadzone to 75% of the remaining range outside the deadzone and 76%-100%. If you are in the end of deadzone - 75% you slew at the current rate and if you are in 76% - 100% you slew at the next highest defined rate, or maybe double the current rate (if less than the highest defined rate).

- Ideally the number of zones, start and end % of each zone and which rates apply to which zone would be user definable (sliders would be nice, but a section in a configuration file would be fine). You could even make the default one zone, whole range as you have it now.

Personally it would be a lot more intuitive and give better feedback to be able to 'jog' the mount towards the target at a higher rate and then drop to a lower rate by releasing the stick. I find myself over and undershooting my target and using the triggers to flip between rates rather frantically at the moment, and it gets very frustrating at times.

Appreciate you will have many other higher priority issues to deal with, but thanks for listening!

[chrisshillito]

Hi Ian,

Obviously when it comes to software the possibilities for what can be done are virtually limitless but I have to temper this with the need to produce an interface that is simple to understand and to support (and despite having what I beleive is fairly decent set of documentation support is still what occupies most of my time)

When I first introduced the concept of rate presets I did a poll of EQMOD group members for the number of different rates they actually use. Three seemed to be the most typical - one for fine centring in an eyepiece, one for centering in a finderscope and full speed for general mount positioning.

So, whilst I don't particularly want to complicate matters by providing customisable zones/rates I am quite happy to give a two speed approach a go. Greater than 75% deflection will move at the currently set rate. 25-75% deflection will move at the preset1 rate (which I sure most folks set ad their fine centering rate). I'll put a check in to make sure that the 25-75% rate is slower than the currently selected rate - and if not then it won't be applied.

Chris.

[chrisshillito]

Only once have I watched in horror as the scope sped off in some random direction, because I had put my jumper on the wireless controller... Won't be doing that again lol

Ant

Guess you dont use the gamepad lock function then!

Chris.

[IanL]

Only once have I watched in horror as the scope sped off in some random direction, because I had put my jumper on the wireless controller... Won't be doing that again lol

Had that happen to me once when the batteries in the pad gave up suddenly due to being worn out and cold temps. Luckily I was able to kill it from the laptop in time, but I guess there are some benefits from a wired controller!

[Steve 1962]

"Guess you dont use the gamepad lock function then!"

Is there a gamepad lock in EQMOD Chris? - if so - where is it please?

[chrisshillito]

Is there a gamepad lock in EQMOD Chris? - if so - where is it please?

Yes, there is a gamepad lock in EQMOD - all hidden in plain sight!

If you go to the gamepad setup screen you will see there is a checkbox labeled "Gamepad Support Enabled". Uncheck this and EQMOD will no longer respond to the gamepad. Alternatively you can assign a gamepad button to toggle this lock - again this is done on the gamepad setup button and you can assign sounds for lock/unlock confirmation via the sounds setup window. Obviously when "locked" EQMOD will still respond to this particular button - and I think the emergency stop if assigned.

Chris

[Steve 1962]

Thanks Chris

I've said it before...and I'll say it again - thanks all the work you do for a brilliant system and really useful tutorials!

(I don't suppose there's any chance of adding focusser control to EQMOD is there? Please?)

Happy Christmas

Steve